Is "consciousness" overrated?

by Narkissos 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Disclaimer: this is the rambling of a French mind, where the single word conscience embraces what the English language distinguishes as "conscience," "consciousness," "awareness," and is closely related to connaissance, "knowledge".

    To this French mind "consciousness" appears as a wonderful yet bittersweet product of reflection (the specular or "mirror" metaphor being central to it). Although it is objectively related to animal sentience, our view of consciousness, I think, is entirely dependent on the seminal technique (the "technique of techniques," as French theologian Gabriel Vahanian put it) of language / symbolism (the ability to point to "things" even though absent or non-existent) and imagination (representing "things" on our inner and cultural "mind map"), from which both memory and anticipation as we know it derive. Functionally it serves a practical purpose, which is precisely technique: through this way of dealing with "things" we can "change" them. But the "flip" side (perhaps accidental after all) is "consciousness".

    According to Lacan, we function in a threefold sphere where perception of the real is immediately assumed by representation with "words" and "ideas" (abstract forms in the mind). In the midst of this representative structure the human "subject" emerges as sapiens sapiens -- he that knows that he knows... the play of reflection is potentially infinite and the subject can "know" everything but himself. "Observe" he who knows that he knows and you instantly become "he who knows that he knows that he knows"... think of that and you get one step further (or recede one step back)... and so on.

    Our "bliss" or "woe" is woven into this reflective play. No pleasure or suffering matters to us until we are "conscious" of it. And as soon as we distance ourselves from it through an additional turn (or strata) of reflection it doesn't matter anymore (or much less). This is fun -- we have become addicted to it. This is also tiresome. Yet we can hardly envision anything without projecting that type of "consciousness" onto it. We read it into the gods, God, universal soul/mind or whatever. It had to be there before "we" were, it has to be there after "we" are gone. And if we don't share in it (and know we do, and know we know we do) it isn't worth it. When the mystics posit another type of "consciousness" -- especially with superlatives like "supra-consciousness", are they breaking free from the game or just playing it one step further (or back)? Can we accept the possibility of anything out of this "bubble" of consciousness -- even the last pebble in the remotest galaxy? Can we relate to it without trying to annex it into our consciousness, or, perhaps, smearing it with our consciousness? The only alternative to ever-expanding consciousness, where we'll end up projecting our image on everything until we get sick of it, seems to be conscious, ek-static poetry, where we accept, from within consciousness as it were, difference from consciousness.

    It sometimes seems to me that we are caught in an insomniac's nightmare (oxymoron intended). We're afraid to "fall" "out" of consciousness -- no matter how painful consciousness may be. Even into the Buddhist nirvâna we can't help reading some consciousness -- and ironically miss the point.

    When I was a little boy I was afraid to go to sleep in the dark -- of course it was dark only until I fell asleep. As much as I have enjoyed the game of consciousness, I'm no longer afraid.

  • digderidoo
    digderidoo

    Have you been smoking that wacky bacci again? I told you not to have too much next time

    Paul

  • Bring_the_Light
    Bring_the_Light

    I should probably reveal that I have a deepseated hatred of everything French, expecially thought patterns and then not bite on this one out of respect.

    Lets just say the major reason why I supported a dumbfuck like George Dubya in our Iraq escapade was because what the French-led Europeans were saying on the matter was far too stupid and far too immoral to allow to prevail. It matters if Presidents of the United States or whole nations are morons. We have a solution for the President, the 60+ million Frenchpersons able to speak and therefore hurt the collective intelligence of mankind, I can think of nothing legal or humane to do about. grr. Poo

  • Open mind
    Open mind
    I have a deepseated hatred of everything French

    Why didn't I just stop reading right there?

    BTL's post was like driving past a bad car wreck. Couldn't help but look.

    Nice post Narkissos. Or should I say, Tres bien?

    OM

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Je pense, donc je suis.

    I think, therefore I am.

    Rene Descartes

    I am no philosopher - I stand on the shoulders of shoulders of giants. I, therefore, cannot answer whether or not consciousness is overrated. My basic and predominantly sentient nature generally overrides a conscious evaluation of any given mundane circumstance. I possess no genuine acumen. While I wish to ponder and reflect upon such as you so beautifully expose in your articulate English, my maddeningly finite mental wherewithal precludes my comprehending, much less utilizing, what you've stated.

    Is it a question of how one understands one's own native tongue and the consequent word association within those linguistic parameters? Les langues maternelles de ma famille - French and Italian - seem at once to help and hinder me insofar as is concerned my rising to a higher level of consciousness. I do attempt to make use of newly-acquired "connaissance" and, truly, "reflechir sur" said knowledge. Somehow, however, the collapse of my spiritual life (its foundation based upon erroroneous "truths") has sent me reeling intellectually, doubting the reality of what should be to the senses, at least, unassailably concrete.

    Je suis perdu!

    CoCo Peu Content

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    Narkissos, so well said. At some level the Observer does drink the waters of Lethe, and in that moment of forgetfullness we may find selfless nirvana.

    But a scrap of consciousness must remain at some level for the Observer to observe - if not self-reflectively. To paraphrase Jon Lennon, we play the game of consciousness to the end, of the beginning. It is an artifact of consciousness to place the world as we know it into space and time, which without consciousness may not exist.

    The unadulterated experience is in a narrow band between conceptualism and non-existance.

    Overrated? I think not...but not the whole ballgame. While a human with consciousness, allow me to be that - but also allow me the perspective which informs a wider worldview.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Hello Narkissos, There you go thinking too much. If we would stop thinking about consciousness perhaps we would have a better chance of experiencing it. I would suggest that THINKING might be over rated rather than consciousness. For example, the comments of BTL. But Open Mind has already point that out and Voideater contributed something meaningful to the question.. As for CC's reference to Descartes "I think, therefore I am" I always liked that. But what if Descartes had a more Eastern taint. Perhaps he would have suggested, "I am, therefore I think". But then we may have diverted 400 years of great western science that now has come 360 and is itself wondering if maybe this great material reality is only a product of consciousness? Good to see you posting, Narkissos. And good topic. Steve, the Realist in search of reality

  • bebu
    bebu
    The only alternative to ever-expanding consciousness, where we'll end up projecting our image on everything until we get sick of it, seems to be conscious, ek-static poetry, where we accept, from within consciousness as it were, difference from consciousness.

    What about sleep, I wonder. Now there's a strange blend of consciousness and qui sais quoi... Also, is the consciousness of madmen different qualitatively?

    We don't have many choices about consciousness. Even to decide to go in and out, if that is possible, seems to require a kind of supraconsciousness, doesn't it? Sort of like in the morning when you realize you can either wake up or continue to dream.

    bebu

    (I love daydreaming, too...)

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    I have just finished Grimus by Salman Rushdie. Have you read it? It made quite a number of interesting observations about immortality on earth, different dimensions and language and culture. Pretty impressive as he was in his 20's when writing it.

  • Midget-Sasquatch
    Midget-Sasquatch

    Bebu,

    The dream state can be a fun playing ground for one's consciousness (although I have to admit that my dreams are utterly unimaginative and a waste of consciousness when I remember them). If only I could perfect lucid dreaming.

    Narcissos

    I'm one of those who is fascinated by mystical loss of the self but also very reluctant to "fall out" of consciousness. I would say those experiencers aren't so much losing consciousness in toto, but having a different target for it. As I understand it, a good portion of the brain wiring is a framework to allow for interpreting what is happening externally. When there are neural storms that disrupt the normal processing of the incoming sensory info, the results cannot be neatly/cleanly perceived. Why get lost in your own head?

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