The bottom line is that religion is usually the problem. If one wants to believe in God the way they want to, then it's all good, right.?
I Do Not Understand Why JWs Leave & Become Catholics!
by minimus 239 Replies latest jw friends
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BurnTheShips
The bottom line is that religion is usually the problem. If one wants to believe in God the way they want to, then it's all good, right.?
Sure...but what if God wants me to smash little red dots? BTS
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undercover
...what if God wants me to smash little red dots?
Your post may have been in jest, but it brings to light the problem with religion...
Too many people/groups claim to know what God wants and then they justify their bloody deeds (with apologies to Don Henley) on their belief that God wants them to do these things. They can claim visionary status or they can claim inspiration or they can claim an understanding of the scripures that they alone have. Along with this delusion, if they are charismatic enough, they can convince others to follow in their crusade.
This is true of a lot of religions. Look at radical Muslims...willing to die in order to spread a jihad against infidels. And a so-called Christian American president claims to be working for God in "bringing freedom" to an oppressed nation, thus justifying an invasion of another sovreign nation. Catholics and Protestants are willing to war each other...the list goes on and on.
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minimus
So BTS thinks God wants him to kill me???
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mouthy
If one wants to believe in God the way they want to, then it's all good, right.?
No I dont think it is ALL GOOD!!! alright. Because differant Gods want differant things>>.Kill others,>>> d/f them,
I believe Love is the answer LOVE!!!!! but we live in a world where is seems it is impossible to put to use
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Amazing
Hi Minimus,
Jim, on the website Lettersfrom thegoverningbodyof jehovah's witnesses, the writing on the blog has your style. Check it out. governingbodylettersblogspot.com
I reviewed the site, which is a sales pitch to buy a book containing such letters. I read some of the sample material. I see no particular similarity in writing style. You may wish to furnish some examples. As stated above, I have never heard of the site, nor have I ever had anything to do with such a site, or such materials sold on the site. I still ask what is your point? Jim Whitney
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mouthy
So BTS thinks God wants him to kill me???
Well you look like a red dot to me bye,bye red dot
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toreador
http://antichristpope.blogspot.com/2006/05/pope-claims-to-be-god-on-earth.html
"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth."
Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".
"...the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power."
Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth." Quoted in the New York Catechism.
These words are written in the Roman Canon Law 1685: "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical."
Father A. Pereira says: "It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title 'Lord God the Pope,' for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII."
Writers on the Canon Law say, "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.
Pope Nicholas I declared: "the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man."
Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para.
"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man .... he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', pp.25-29
"The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires... complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself."
Leo VIII, «On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens», Encyclical letter, 1890
"God separates those whom the Roman Pontiff, who exercises the functions, not of mere man, but of the true God...dissolves, not by human but rather by divine authority."
Decretals of Gregory IX», Book 1, Chapter 7.3
"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions (infernorum)."
Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)
"Innocent III has written: "Indeed, it is not top much to say that in view of the sublimity of their offices the priests are so many gods."
The dignity of the priesthood by Liguori p, 36
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh."
Catholic National July 1895
"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty"
Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894
"For thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth."
Labbe and Cossart's "History of the Councils." Vol. XIV, col. 109
Roman Catholic Canon Law stipulates through Pope Innocent III that the Roman pontiff is
"the vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but of a very God;" and in a gloss on the passage it is explained that this is because he is the vicegerent of Christ, who is "very God and very man." Decretales Domini Gregorii translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Devretales, col. 205
"The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land... He is the vicegerent (replacement) of Christ, who is not only a Priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords."
La Civilia Cattolica, March 18, 1871, quoted in Leonard Woosely Bacaon, An inside view of the Vatican Council (American Tract Society ed.), p.229
"Christ entrusted His office to the chief pontiff;... but all power in heaven and in earth has been given to Christ;... therefore the chief pontiff, who is His vicar, will have this power."
Corpus Juris chap. 1 column 29, translated from a gloss on the words Porro Subesse Romano Pontiff
"The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land . . . He is the vicegerent of Christ, and is not only a priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords"
La Civilta Cattolica, March 18, 1871.
"All the faithful must believe that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff [the Pope] possesses the primacy over the whole world, and the Roman Pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and is true vicar of Christ, and heed of the whole church, and father and teacher of all Christians; and that full power was given to him in blessed Peter to rule, feed, and govern the universal Church by Jesus Christ our Lord."
First Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of Christ, "Eternal Pastor," published in the fourth session of the Vatican Council, 1870, chap. 3, in Philip Schaff, Creeds of Christendom. vol. 2, p. 262.
“The Pope’s authority is unlimited, incalculable; it can strike, as Innocent III says, wherever sin is; it can punish every one; it allows no appeal and is itself Sovereign Caprice; for the Pope carries, according to the expression of Boniface VIII, all rights in the Shrine of his breast. As he has now become infallible, he can by the use of the little word, “orbi,” (which means that he turns himself round to the whole Church) make every rule, every doctrine, every demand, into a certain and incontestable article of Faith. No right can stand against him, no personal or corporate liberty; or as the [Roman Catholic] Canonists put it—“The tribunal of God and of the pope is one and the same.”
Ignaz von Dollinger, “A Letter Addressed to the Archbishop of Munich” 1871; as quoted in MacDougall,
"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth."
(Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958).
"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate."
(Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, page 653).
"Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors."
(Pope Pius XI, Encyclical, Mortalium animos, January 6, 1928, The Papal Encyclicals, Claudia Carlen, I.H.M., McGrath Publishing Co., 1981, pp. 317, 318).
"We define that the Holy Apostolic See (the Vatican) and the Roman Pontiff hold the primacy over the whole world."
A Decree of the Council of Trent, quoted in Philippe Labbe and Gabriel Cossart, "The Most Holy Councils," col. 1167. -
Amazing
Toreador,
Your copy from the blogspot quoted Canon Law 1685 as: "These words are written in the Roman Canon Law 1685: 'To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.'
Were you aware that Canon Law 1685 which you quoted is not to be found in official documents published by the Vatican?
The official text of Canon Law 1685 reads as:"As soon as the sentence is executed, the judicial vicar must notify the local ordinary of the place in which the marriage was celebrated. The local ordinary must take care that the declaration of the nullity of the marriage and any possible prohibitions are noted as soon as possible in the marriage and baptismal registers." - Code of Cannon Law, Prepared under the auspices of the Canon Law Society of America, Washington, DC 20064, Codex Iuris Canonici © Copyright 1983 by Libreria Editrice Vaticana.
Citing blogspots can be problematic, as they can be loaded with bias and misquotes, which can be misleading, or slanted in a way to give incorrect impressions to non-catholics. If one wants to disagree with Catholic theology, then at least do so with accurate quotes and correct understanding of what is/was really taught.
It would also be good to provide the context of the Canon Law Article quoted. The surrounding language of a specific Canon Law can help readers better grasp the intent of what the Canon Law conveys. Also provide the source citation from the year, as well as name of the actual document, authors, publishers, etc. because such things as Canon Law do change.
Example of context: Canon Law 1685 is taken from Book VII Processes, Part III. Certain Special Processes, Title I. Marriage Processes, (Cann. 1671 - 1707), Chapter I. Cases to Declare the Nullity of Marriage, Article 5, The Sentence and the Appeal.
One needs to understand how such processes are viewed and practiced in the Catholic faith. So, even if your above quote had been accurate, by providing such context it may yield a better understanding of the Papal office.
No self-respecting Catholic ever views the Pope as God. Rather, the office he holds belongs to God. In the same way the office of Apostle, Evangelizer, Teacher, Shepherd, Elder (Priest), Deacon, etc. all are offices that belong to God. Popes are sinful fallible men. Popes make mistakes, and local Bishops do not have to strictly abide by Papal decrees ... and they are not removed for their failure to comply with the Pope.
If someone not familiar with Catholic teaching and practice views your material, or the material from the blog, such one would get the opposite impression that the Pope is some type of absolute power dictator that is equal to God. This would be a false impression that would mislead the reader.
My quote of the entire Canon Law 1685 is taken from the Vatican web site at:
Jim Whitney
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toreador
Hello Jim,
Thank you for clarifying. Do you know where the quote came from? Was in in the canon law at one time and then changed by a Pope at a later time?
Were the following statements actually recorded accurately?
"The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land . . . He is the vicegerent of Christ, and is not only a priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords"
La Civilta Cattolica, March 18, 1871."All the faithful must believe that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff [the Pope] possesses the primacy over the whole world, and the Roman Pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and is true vicar of Christ, and heed of the whole church, and father and teacher of all Christians; and that full power was given to him in blessed Peter to rule, feed, and govern the universal Church by Jesus Christ our Lord."
First Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of Christ, "Eternal Pastor," published in the fourth session of the Vatican Council, 1870, chap. 3, in Philip Schaff, Creeds of Christendom. vol. 2, p. 262.
“The Pope’s authority is unlimited, incalculable; it can strike, as Innocent III says, wherever sin is; it can punish every one; it allows no appeal and is itself Sovereign Caprice; for the Pope carries, according to the expression of Boniface VIII, all rights in the Shrine of his breast. As he has now become infallible, he can by the use of the little word, “orbi,” (which means that he turns himself round to the whole Church) make every rule, every doctrine, every demand, into a certain and incontestable article of Faith. No right can stand against him, no personal or corporate liberty; or as the [Roman Catholic] Canonists put it—“The tribunal of God and of the pope is one and the same.”
Ignaz von Dollinger, “A Letter Addressed to the Archbishop of Munich” 1871; as quoted in MacDougall,
"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth."
(Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958).
"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate."
(Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, page 653).
"Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors."
(Pope Pius XI, Encyclical, Mortalium animos, January 6, 1928, The Papal Encyclicals, Claudia Carlen, I.H.M., McGrath Publishing Co., 1981, pp. 317, 318).