"a man's enemies..."

by teejay 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
    I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to
    turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a
    daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -- a man's enemies
    will be the members of his own household.
    Matt. 10: 34-36

    Many people blame the WTS because of the damage that is done to families as a result of the disfellowshipping policy, but the 'fault' may lie elsewhere. Here the Son of Man lays the groundwork for giving his followers the justification and peace of mind in shunning former believers (or so-called apostates), even if those are blood relatives.

    All loyal JWs have to do is point to this scripture and say, "See? Jesus himself said that divisions would happen in families over the truth. Why be surprised?"

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    All loyal JWs have to do is point to this scripture and say, "See? Jesus himself said that divisions would happen in families over the truth. Why be surprised?"

    And all bible apologist tend to forget that the scripture is there.

  • Celtic
    Celtic

    Dad quotes this scripture to me in justification of the WT stance on disfellowshipping, but it comes across to me as holier than thou, for in effect, what is being said by this reasoning from the scripture is that the JW is saying, "I am better than you, I am representing whole truth, you belong to Satan, look, even here, the Bible says so".

    Was this really what the scripture was referring to though? The JW's make it look as though the scripture in question was especially written just for them alone and no others.

    I prefer Dad to see / read the scripture the opposite way around from your interpretation.

    peace

    celtic
    who loves his parents dearly

  • teejay
    teejay

    I prefer Dad to see / read the scripture the opposite way around from your interpretation.

    Celtic,

    It's not MY interpretation. It the way most dubs reason on the scripture, using it to justify their treatment of former believers. I don't believe it or practice it anymore, personally.

    You make a good point, though. When Christianity started to take off in popularity, it was not a religion held in high regard by the elite of society, so it was the non-believers who looked down on the believers with scorn. Over time, the scripture has taken on a different meaning and most take the superior position like your dad.

    Peace,
    tj

  • Celtic
    Celtic

    'your' as in JW perspective, not you personally, sorry for the misunderstanding.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Teejay,

    Jesus wasn't telling peple to dump their families, rather he was saying that as the Messiah apeared, these other things would happen.

    Jewish understanding was that the messianic era would be preceded by a time of disharmony in family and social relationships. By these sayings, Jesus was announcing the messianic age and his own messiahship.

    In fact, Jesus was quoting from the Jewish prophet Micah who spoke of the messianic age in these terms:

    "Do not trust a neighbour; put no confidence in a friend. Even with her who lies in your embrace be careful of your words. For a son dishonours his father, a daughter rises up against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies are the members of his own household (Micah 7:5-6)".

    So Jesus was simply saying that these things would occur when the Mesiah appeared, he was simply claiming his "Messiahship" by saying that "he" had caused these things to occur by simply arriving and thereby fulfilling Scripture. He wasn't approving of them!

    The WTBTS hi-jacking of this Scripture to suit their own ends is quite abominable.

    Englishman.

    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

  • mommy
    mommy

    Teejay,
    I remember sitting in on a study where my mom was conducting and heard her telling the meaning of this scripture. I was thinking NO WAY! This is the most asanine thing I have ever heard. My mother was showing her(the study) before it happened what the woman's family would do if she became a JW. And consoling her that Jesus already fortold that this would happen, and it was his purpose. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

    Not long ago we sat down and had a discussion on the bible, and I brought up this scripture. She still interprates it the same way. That jesus came to cause a division in families, so that some may be saved. Of course when I asked her why jesus didn't want the whole family to be saved she went onto some mumbo jumbo about not being worthy, and their hearts are hardened. And I had to jump off the merry go round because I don't want to ride anymore. Once you are out of the religous double speak, it is hard to sit through much of it.

    What it boils down to is that anyone can interpret the scriptures anyway they want. And if you are really good and able to jump from one scripture to the next making it sound half way possible, you might even get a religion behind you. Now tie in a prize for the good and fear of a horrible death, and you have followers. Then add a bit of control, over your thoughts and your family members and you have a cycle that can only be broken one person at a time, with much pain for all. Religion is the craziest thing, so sad you don't see it until you get out of it.
    wendy

    Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

  • teejay
    teejay

    The WTBTS hi-jacking of this Scripture to suit their own ends is quite abominable.

    I agree 100%, E-man, but you have to admit -- it works.

    The only point I was making is that by viewing this single passage the way they do, JWs are able to have a clear(er) conscience when turning their backs on former family members and life-long friends. The painful feelings daughters and sons may have when shunning their exJW parents (or vice versa... and I DO believe they feel pain) is considerably lessened for the loyal JW since they believe Jesus' words recorded in Matthew are prophetically true in their case.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Teejay,

    OK I understand what you are saying.

    Next time that you get challenged on this one, just ask the dub to turn to Micah 7 and see for themselves that Jesus was only quoting scripture and alluding to himself as the fulfillment of that prophesy.

    Englishman

    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

  • lauralisa
    lauralisa

    Hey teejay!

    All loyal JWs have to do is point to this scripture and say, "See? Jesus himself said that divisions would happen in families over the truth. Why be surprised?"
    Good point there.

    Here the Son of Man lays the groundwork for giving his followers the justification and peace of mind in shunning former believers (or so-called apostates), even if those are blood relatives.
    When examining the 'stream of thought' that occurs in Jesus' statements in that chapter, isn't it interesting to consider his serious investment in shattering the existing hold that the talmudic religious leaders had on the (judaic) culture in that day? He consistently tried to expose the hypocrisy and blatantly destructive cult mentality that strangled the free flow of thought.

    The religious "leaders", claiming for themselves the right to determine what was "right" and "wrong" for ALL of the jews in their clutches would stop at nothing to maintain their stronghold over people. Their interpretations of the existing scriptures became LAW, and those who dared to question or defy these dictates were cast out (another type of "prison sentance", really...) from their families, communities, and culture; an "outcast" found himself unable to continue to conduct his financial, familial or personal affairs in any previously-enjoyed or normal manner. It was tantamount to spiritual murder.... (they weren't allowed by "Caesar" to actually murder someone physically so they came up with the next worse thing.)

    They acquired by insidious force the station - and resultant reverence - of functioning as representatives of "God" and his will. Operating as such, they seized the right to dictate the behavior of the common man, resulting in their controlling people at incredibly intrusive levels. It is a dehumanizing dynamic. We still see it in operation today, all over the world, in microcosms as well as the more observable large organizations such as what is in New York, and in Afganistan.

    Isn't Jesus trying to speak to THIS issue in your reference in Matthew 10:34? Wasn't he trying to blast through the stronghold that those mind-killers had on people? He was straightforward about the "costs" it would take to break out of that cult mentality. He inferred that it would probably cost everything a person had, perhaps their very life.

    His war was waged against the powerful forces in place - forces that when left unchecked will reduce an individual's ability to have a life, and a mind, and the opportunity to realize human potential.

    Never did Jesus advocate forcing HIS or GOD'S or ANYONE'S agenda on anything whether it be a single individual or society at large - resorting to cruel, abusive and hateful if not outright evil tactics if they didn't comply. He DID advocate the right to exist, to think, to CHOOSE, to move around in the beautiful universe with an agenda of love, which should usually result in positive evolution and development of humankind's vast range of talents and gifts to leave behind when they move on... perhaps not on the scale that HE was able to accomplish, but, well, you know what I mean.

    Expulsion policies currently practiced by the WTBTS are virtually identical to those utilized by the jewish leaders in the first century. Jesus condemned THOSE guys, and THOSE practices. The "Insight on the Scriptures" volume I, page 787, under the topic "EXPELLING", sub-topic the Sanhedrin and synagogues is proof of this.

    I'm looking forward to your thoughts teejay! What prompted you to post this topic? I'm just curious as to what else you are thinking about/contending with lately.

    Warm regards to you,

    lauralisa

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