... when I asked her why jesus didn't want the whole family to be saved she went onto some mumbo jumbo about not being worthy, and their hearts are hardened. And I had to jump off the merry go round because I don't want to ride anymore.
Wendy,
More than anything else you said, this jumps out.
'Reasoning' with a JW is never going to get you very far unless you wise up and agree with them. I know. If I think about it too long, I start to get a little sad -- I wasted a lot of my life defending JW foolishness myself.
The average JW, like the average person in general, is not much of a thinker really, and they tend to simply parrot what's been shoved down their throats by 'God's mouthpiece' (see ANYTHING that JR Brown says publically).
E-man's analysis of what Jesus actually meant is clear as day (and the JW's own bible footnotes to the passage in Micah that Jesus was quoting), but few of them are willing to do the research... or care. Those that are are understandably unwilling to openly disagree with the official policy and pay the price that goes along with being labeled an independent thinker.
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Lauralisa,
You make good points about the religious leaders of Jesus' day, particularly their interest in having full control over their members. As you said, their interpretations of the existing scriptures became LAW and those bold enough to disagree paid a heavy price. (who does that remind us of!?) The same exclusivity of thought and scriptural exegesis has been true ever since. History books are full of examples of people whose minds and free will were essentially raped by religions and gov'ts, if the dissidents weren't murdered outright. As you said, such mental and spiritual oppression still exists in full force today, in contexts other than religious.
Isn't Jesus trying to speak to THIS issue in your reference in Matthew 10:34? Wasn't he trying to blast through the stronghold that those mind-killers had on people? He was straightforward about the "costs" it would take to break out of that cult mentality. He inferred that it would probably cost everything a person had, perhaps their very life.
It's hard for me to say exactly what the Son of Man EVER had in mind. I tend to agree with Six who said that Jesus could have made himself clearer, but in being vague (here and other places) he was only acting like his father. I don't have a concrete opinion on who Jesus was or wasn't.
My quoting him here was only to show one of the primary reasons that JWs have at hand to justify their inhumane, illogical, unloving treatment of loved ones who simply come to have different ideas and see things differently. Often, these shunned ones have been known and loved and associated with for decades and now, all of a sudden, the loyal JW won't even say a terse 'hello' in public or wave from across the street. I know -- I've been the waver and the wavee.
While you may be right -- that Jesus didn't force his viewpoints on any -- if he was anywhere near as clever as he's purported to have been he should have clearly understood the radical changes his viewpoints were going to bring into the lives of his followers. He could have done much more to prepare them for what was to befall them instead of simply saying that they would find enemies in their own household, but then maybe they should have understood that.
You mentioned the article in the Insight book on "shunning." Years ago, I gave a Number Five student talk on that article (it was the Aid book at the time). I don't remember all of the points it discussed, but I do recall that shunning back then could carry very serious repercussions. In it's strongest sense, people's financial lives were ruined. Other than leaving the country, I don't see how they could survive physically, not to mention their mental and emotional well-being. Maybe Jesus knew what he was setting them up for, after all.
I can't say that there was a particular reason why I thought of that quote of "the Master," other than that it's played a part in how I treated others and how they treated me when I was 'on the ship' (as my buds and I used to call df'ing). It's not a reason to totally excuse the JW's treatment of their df'd family, but it is a very good reason.
My eldest sister (and favorite sibling) was df'd in 1971 when I was thirteen and she was 19. This scripture often came to mind when I wavered in my support of the society's edict relative to how to treat df'd family members. I love her to pieces, I look up to her as I always did, but our relationship was irreparably damaged years ago when I was unable to think for myself, and for that the blame lies with me. It's one of my life's major, major regrets.
The society's teachings no longer affect any aspect of my life, but that may change somewhat as my two-year-old's association with the congregation increases (her JW mom takes her). There are no guarantees, of course, but the plan is for me to return to the mtgs when she begins to understand what she hears, so that I can help her see the whole story.
The plan is for her to never come close to considering being a JW. Like I said... no guarantees, and kids do silly things sometimes. Still, I will be there for her whatever she decides to do with her life, but I will definitely nudge her away from that twisted religion. Wish I'd-a had that. No life is perfect, I guess.
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Six,
Jesus could easily have taken care to make his meaning clear. As he left it, the whole thing does sound rather sinister...
I agree totally. Taken just the way he said it, it should have been clear that those who embraced his teachings were in for a few little changes in their family lives.
If he was all-wise like they say, he should've done a better job preparing them for it, or else amending what he said, cause the disruptions between loving family members aren't a necessity to Christianity. I mean, you can be a Christian (or not) and still be friends with, hang out with, associate with and love people whose beliefs differ from yours. I do it all the time. What I personally believe has no bearing on who I care about.
But then, I ain't Jesus.
peace, y'all
