Who do you think actually pays the taxes for a Corp.?
So you want gas to go even higher?
Windfall taxes on Oil Companies - for it or against it?
by UnConfused 38 Replies latest watchtower bible
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BurnTheShips
Smash the monopolies.
There are no oil monopolies!--at least among the private producers. You want to smash monopolies? Go after OPEC. OPEC is a cartel, for pete's sake! They exist for the sole purpose of acting in unison to maintain high prices. They control nearly half of global production. If you add in Russia (whose production is really controlled from the Kremlin), that is more than half. Non-OPEC production, the sort of stuff you people want to crucify the private corps for, is falling. US production peaked in the early 70's. North Sea fields first opened in the late 70's early 80's and are in decline. Mexican production is in decline. Mexico's largest field, Cantarell, is past peak. OPEC is controlling a greater and greater share of supply. Global production has not changed since late 2005--but global demand is growing. That is why the prices are high.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/13/business/EU-FIN-International-Energy-Agency-Oil-Prices.php
Eliminate the subsidies.
I agree with this in the current evironment. There reason there were subsidies in the first place was to protect the industry when there was a glut of oil on the market. Why should we want to protect the industry you might ask? To have allowed it to fail would have left us with greatly reduced domestic capacity. The current situation would have been even worse.
BTS
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nvrgnbk
Their profit margins aren't really all that out of line. Getting rid of the tax breaks that Bush and the Republican congress gave them would be a good idea though.
That might be the way to go. BTSAgreed.
The gas-tax holiday was a scam. It had been tried at various times — Barack Obama had voted for a local version in the Illinois legislature — and prices never came down. The oil companies and gas-station owners simply pocketed the difference. Clinton's "responsible" version of the plan was also a scam. She wanted to pay for it with a "windfall profits" tax on the oil companies, but she had earlier, and more responsibly, called for the elimination of tax breaks for those same companies. If you eliminate the tax breaks, you effectively eliminate the windfall profits. There would be nothing to tax. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1738330,00.html
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BurnTheShips
NVR:
At least we can agree that we need to develop new technology to wean us off importation of hydrocarbons.
The question is how?
BTS
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Amazing
The claims about taxing oil companies exhibit considerable lack of understanding of what is taking place on a global scale. Big oil as some call it is not the problem.
Big OPEC, including Venezuela and other cooperating nations are part of the equation, as they refuse to increase production. This artificially increases demand.
Big China and Big India are booming economically ... and their peoples want cars, and electric plants, and other products derived from oil. With 2 Billion people between them, they are forcing up demand.
BIG oil does not raise prices simply because there is demand ... rather, in order to maintain the supply the west needs (this includes Canada, Great Britain, the rest of Western Europe, etc., it means that the highest bidder wins the oil ... and the oil companies simply pass the cost along.
BIG oil has increased some profits to catch up to normal business levels ... because they have been far behind for decades. But, their profits would not make any more than maybe about 20 to 25 cents per gallon were they to go non-profit ... that is hardly enough to make a dent in the huge increases caused by OPEC and BIG China and BIG India. Also BIG China is building reserves to catch up and surpass the US reserves, which means they are buying far above their actual domestic and military demand.
THE sad truth is that we have enough oil in the USA to fuel all our own needs without buying any oil ... and we could do this as we convert to hydrogen fuel cells for cars, as well as solar, wind, and nuclear for electric power needs. The problem ... you guessed it ... and it is not the President who has no real power to enact these needed changes ...
It is the demands, or lack thereof, of WE the BIG People ... why? Because we the BIG People have our collective BIG heads in the sand as we blame our own oil companies. We the BIG People are not carefully studying the issues as much of the rest of the world laughs at us. We the BIG People also can stop driving our polluting cars, and simply demand busses and trains or move to locations closer to our jobs where we can walk ... we can demand hybrid cars, electric cars, and hydrogen cars ... but do we? Will we? Perhaps when the price of a gallon reaches $8 to $10 per gallon or more ... wherever the magic point is that motivates us to demand real change.
Jim Whitney
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5go
The claims about taxing oil companies exhibit considerable lack of understanding of what is taking place on a global scale. Big oil as some call it is not the problem.
Big OPEC, including Venezuela and other cooperating nations are part of the equation, as they refuse to increase production. This artificially increases demand.
Big China and Big India are booming economically ... and their peoples want cars, and electric plants, and other products derived from oil. With 2 Billion people between them, they are forcing up demand.
BIG oil does not raise prices simply because there is demand ... rather, in order to maintain the supply the west needs (this includes Canada, Great Britain, the rest of Western Europe, etc., it means that the highest bidder wins the oil ... and the oil companies simply pass the cost along.
BIG oil has increased some profits to catch up to normal business levels ... because they have been far behind for decades. But, their profits would not make any more than maybe about 20 to 25 cents per gallon were they to go non-profit ... that is hardly enough to make a dent in the huge increases caused by OPEC and BIG China and BIG India. Also BIG China is building reserves to catch up and surpass the US reserves, which means they are buying far above their actual domestic and military demand.
THE sad truth is that we have enough oil in the USA to fuel all our own needs without buying any oil ... and we could do this as we convert to hydrogen fuel cells for cars, as well as solar, wind, and nuclear for electric power needs. The problem ... you guessed it ... and it is not the President who has no real power to enact these needed changes ...
It is the demands, or lack thereof, of WE the BIG People ... why? Because we the BIG People have our collective BIG heads in the sand as we blame our own oil companies. We the BIG People are not carefully studying the issues as much of the rest of the world laughs at us. We the BIG People also can stop driving our polluting cars, and simply demand busses and trains or move to locations closer to our jobs where we can walk ... we can demand hybrid cars, electric cars, and hydrogen cars ... but do we? Will we? Perhaps when the price of a gallon reaches $8 to $10 per gallon or more ... wherever the magic point is that motivates us to demand real change.
First off the reason gas prices are so high is do to Big Oil companies not upgrading their refineries. In fact letting one in Texas City explode do to safety equipment the wasn't up to snuff. This despite obscene profits. Then add in inflation and you start to see what is really going on price gouging.
OPEC is owned except for a few hold outs by the USA and Big Oil. In fact the only thing OPEC has done through the years without US approval was drop the US dollar as the only method of payment for oil ( at the urging of Venezuela, Iran, and Saudi Arabia ) and that was because even a numb skull could see problems with the US dollar inflation and the rise of other foreign currencies as competition to the dollar.
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BurnTheShips
First off the reason gas prices are so high is do to Big Oil companies not upgrading their refineries.
Wrong wrong wrong.
#2 The US refining business has added--through upgrades--the equivalent of a new, state of the art refinery every year for the last fifteen years. Just in this decade alone, we have added more than a 1.3 million barrels a day in new capacity.
The EIA figures:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mocleus2m.htm
Are we running our refining at capacity?
NO. If anything, we have more spare capacity now than we did 5 or 10 years ago.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mopueus2m.htm
This despite the fact that the environazis have been attempting to block eveything as they have been.
http://calenergy.blogspot.com/2008/01/refinery-upgrade-encoutering-opposition.html
Crude costs more than 6 times the price it was in 1999 (it was under $20 in 1999).
Transportation distillate (gasoline and diesel) has gone up less than 3x as paid at the pump in the US.
The problem is not refining.
BTS
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hillbilly
I see the market price argument and understand it.
WIndfall tax is not the per se answer. Production capacity is the big problem. IF we should reward oil with a "tax break" those breaks and incentives should be to expand and modernize production plants and expand domestic production. If you want to tax some oil companies make the penalty punish those who dont re-invest or improve domestic production practices.
I noticed that lots of well in Michigan and Oklahoma are pumping as soon as oil hit the $100 mark. That tells me that it is suddenly worth the time and cost to produce it based on market.
If the Us govt turned loose reserves etc for a few months those that run "the market" would have to adjust prices
Hill
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BurnTheShips
OPEC is owned except for a few hold outs by the USA and Big Oil.
Wrong.
OPEC oil production is owned by member nations.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/opec.html
A large number of those nations are not friendly to the US. The US has no say in output. It is not a member of OPEC. OPEC is a cartel, which is a monopolistic anticompetitive organization. Our current high prices are partly the result of states controling the means of production. OPEC is a poster child for state based monopolies and the harm they do.
In fact the only thing OPEC has done through the years without US approval was drop the US dollar as the only method of payment for oil ( at the urging of Venezuela, Iran, and Saudi Arabia ) and that was because even a numb skull could see problems with the US dollar inflation and the rise of other foreign currencies as competition to the dollar.
Wrong.It doesn't matter what denomination you buy oil in, they are all interchangeable. Oil is rising against all major currencies, and not just the dollar. Here is crude in Euros for example for 2007:
Inflation is becoming a major problem in other economic zones.
Click the links and learn something.
BurnTheShips
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Amazing
5go,
First off the reason gas prices are so high is do to Big Oil companies not upgrading their refineries. In fact letting one in Texas City explode do to safety equipment the wasn't up to snuff. This despite obscene profits. Then add in inflation and you start to see what is really going on price gouging.
The oil companies have not been able to build new refineries due to lobbying by environmentalists resulting in stricter, mosrcostly regulations which make it nearly impossible to build. There are no "obscene" profits. The majority of stock holders are average people, such as 401k plans, governm,ent retirement plans, etc. Oil is secure, but their profit margin is on about 6% compared with companies like the phone industry at 10% or more. It is obvious you failed to read my post, as the price increases are due to lack of production at the well (not refinery) and increased demand from India and China.
OPEC is owned except for a few hold outs by the USA and Big Oil.
This is totally false. There is no way that US oil companies have any control over OPEC. All of the evidence points in the opposite direction. Aramco, the leading Saudi oil company is owned by the Royal Saudi family, not American oil companies. I have worked in this industry and met these people, and you are sadly mistaken.
In fact the only thing OPEC has done through the years without US approval was drop the US dollar as the only method of payment for oil ( at the urging of Venezuela, Iran, and Saudi Arabia ) and that was because even a numb skull could see problems with the US dollar inflation and the rise of other foreign currencies as competition to the dollar.
OPEC began to distance itself from the US dollar about 1969 when President Nixon took the dollar off of the gold standard. What prompted inflation was the wage and price freeze Nixon used to control inflation ... it backfired and put us into a mess that lasted until Ronald Reagan became president. However necessary those steps were then, they are not directly relevant today, nearly 40-years later. Major demand for oil has increased from China and India ... and this is coupled with the OPEC nations refusal to increase production. Our own demand for oil has not really slowed. So, a $4 / gallon price is really not all that bad from a historic perspective. The real problem is that it happened too much, too fast.
US oil companies are middlemen who cannot, and need not, control where the price is at, as they make about the same profit regardless. The truth is, they would much prefer lower prices as this would reduce the unfortunate negative spotlight that they do not deserve.
If you enageg in a good study of global business, you will find that the points I presented in my earlier posting and in this post are spot on target.
Jim Whitney
