Where do atheists' morals come from?

by dorayakii 94 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  dorayakii

  Paul was a twit. ;)

  If I criticised the insult toward Dawkins, I mustn't be a hypocrite and allow it on my side. Please refrain from an insulting tone. The opposition doesn't like it, and as we've seen many times on this board, it often gets their back up and leads to name-calling and other irrationality.

  Rabbit: So, "...what is the real source of human ethics ?" Our very own grey matter between our ears.

  hillary_step: Cultural pressures and the process of social evolution are what dictates whether something is good or evil, not an inbuilt Divine process.

  I tend to agree with your opinions.

  My humble theory is that the DNA forms the body and brain through embryonic development, but now the brain, developped as it is and adept at learning and recording real-time information, has "challenged" many of the functions that the DNA governed before. DNA "sees" only short-term survival, but the brain can calculate long-term survival and that's one of the reasons it was such a desirable trait to be selected for... Further delelopment of a "community of brains" led to society and culture. Cultural pressures and social evolution gave rise to morality and to our modern national laws (which keep brains which refuse to conform to society's expectations, in check).

  We have a chain of causality: DNA >> body/brain >> community of brains >> culture/society >> morality/ethics >> laws
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  Deputy Dog

  Dorayakii

  Now, for me to believe something, it has to be well thought-out, well argued and have at least some evidence, preferably physical or scientific, to back it up.

  Are morals "physical or scientific"? What are fossils evidence of? What other evidence (if any) can you believe?
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  hamilcarr

  Are morals "physical or scientific"? What are fossils evidence of? What other evidence (if any) can you believe?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endosymbiotic_theory "Life did not take over the globe by combat, but by networking" (i.e. by cooperation). Why would humans be an exception to this universal rule?
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  inrainbows

  Well, I dislike the term atheists as it's so awfully vague, but I can't resist answering a question with the apostrophe in the right place.

  I get mine from Fortune Cookies, I just carry a pocketful around and open them when ever I have to make a moral decision.

  On a more serious note, we get our morals from evolution, the same place we get our genotype from. Morals are largely but not exclusively part of our extended phenotype.

  To put it simply, morals are enculturation with some genetic basis.

  A classic example is inbreeding; raise children in a family unit during a critical age period and they will almost never find each other sexually attractive. This is instinctive, as instinctive as a stallion driving out a colt out from the herd.

  On top of that we have enculturation which tells us it is wrong, largely for the same reasons that we have the instinct.

  Our mechanisms of trust and reaction to betrayal of trust are exactly what you would expect from a creature that has historically (on an evolutionary scale) had the social structures we had, as they are the most efficient.

  Look at wolves. They are reasonably intelligent social animals. They care for each other's young, defer having young in response to social factors, feed the sick and injured, ostracise those who do not conform to norms. Look what happens when you yell at a dog for doing something bad; the reason humans domesticated dogs was their social programming makes them tractable domestic animals. A dog can know the difference between right and wrong and will LOOK guilty if it is doing something wrong.

  Morals are nothing special really. We have extended them A LOT into learnt behaviour, but their basis is biological.
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  hamilcarr

  Where do atheists' morals come from?

  Probably, the foundational principle of morality is empathy. Where does empathy come from? One of the greatest discoveries in the field of neurocognition were the so-called mirror neurons, responsible for the possibility to share emotions with others on a neurological level. Mirror neurons have been directly observed in primates and birds.

  A mirror neuron is a neuron which fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another (especially conspecific) animal. Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of another animal, as though the observer were itself acting. These neurons have been directly observed in primates, and are believed to exist in humans and in some birds. In humans, brain activity consistent with mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex and the inferior parietal cortex.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neurons
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  catbert

  Why do we get so attached to our pets? They are just animals. And sometimes when they die or we have to put them down, we get physically ill. Also, have you ever noticed you think creatures with big eyes are cute, but things with no eyes or beady eyes are not so cute. Why is it easier to beat a snake or a spyder to death, but beating a kitten or a puppy do death is very difficult for most people. Its those cute eyes and that cute behavior. Somewhere in our past, we started looking with fondness into the eyes of our fellow creatures. Maybe a good question to ask is, what makes something loveable, and what makes something an object of hatred.
  Most sociopaths get their start by torturing and killing animals. They are missing that fondness the rest of us feel for loveable creatures.
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  hillary_step

  dorayaki,

  If I criticised the insult toward Dawkins, I mustn't be a hypocrite and allow it on my side. Please refrain from an insulting tone.

  Sorry buster, you have no right to demand that I use or not use expressions as I see fit. You do not own this Board or this thread, and are not in a position to manipulate the thread so cool it!

  HS
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  jefferywhat

  the selfish gene.
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  Twitch

  I get mine from Fortune Cookies, I just carry a pocketful around and open them when ever I have to make a moral decision.
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  BurnTheShips

  Sorry buster, you have no right to demand that I use or not use expressions as I see fit. You do not own this Board or this thread, and are not in a position to manipulate the thread so cool it!

  Cut him some slack HS, it is just a evolutionary misfire. He's just the sum total of his genetic makeup, remember?

  BTS