Atheism - The next and final logical step (page 2)

BurnTheShips

I am not going to get into it with on your "hello" thread.

PM me when you start a new one.

Welcome aboard, I look forward to future discussions.

BTS

After analyzing my experiences with God, I cannot conclude that He has all three of the qualities needed to be worthy of worship to the fullest extent He wants. He needs to be omniscient, omnipotent, and maximally benevolent. I have not found Him to be maximally benevolent--if anything, He is maximally malevolent. And that is the strike that kills any chance of Him getting any worship from me. Whether any omniscient and omnipotent being exists, I am positive that this being cannot be maximally benevolent. Hence, I would rather worship the true Satan (that is, the Satan that liberated man from a potentially oppressive tyranny in Eden, and has been fighting ever since for freedom for man. I do not believe a God that demands sacrifices and gets pxxx when it is not "enough" deserves anything at all. And what has this God done for me? Absolutely nothing. He has created negative value in my life just by existing. Hence, atheism or Devil worship are the only two paradigms that make any sense--and Devil worship doesn't have to mean causing mayhem. It means living independent of what God wants, and doing things just to slap Him in the face.

curlymoses

Perhaps there is some middle ground somewhere here. Maybe Darwin was a fraud. Maybe the meaning and understanding of God today differs from what it meant and was understood as long ago. These topics get deep.

heathen

Whatever makes you happy . Don't believe atheism myself but totally hate religion . There are physicists that are saying that whatever math they use for the big bang does not prove anything . Then you're right back to discussing invisible forces molding life when the fossil record doesn't support the tiny changes over long periods of time .They make huge leaps in logic to conclude it happened , that's why it's still called a theory of evolution , (unproven hypothesis).

Shazard

keep digging... Next step is to learn some basic mathematics, physics, IT, logic, phylosophy and it is very liberating to find out that evolution is just-so stories to back phylosophical claims of atheism. Only, problem is, that ppl believe in math and IT only if it backs their beliefs, if they do not, they will not believe in IT and math. My experience shows that most of ppl who believe in evolution are just incapable of understanding the process to see it's impossibility. IT helps it, but for that you need to have this IT thinking pattern! I suggest all evolutionists to do some reading and learning about the matters, and do not stuck in "genetic algorithms" as they are not proof of evolution, coz evolutionary process is not what genetic algorithms describe, this is selection. Normal selection is describable by math, but evolution (new functional info there where it is not present) is not describable mathematically, and it is normal as it goes against meny prooved theorems of theoretical IT. If the process would be, we would have self-programming software allready in place. As we do not have such programms prooves one simple thing, there is no mathematical model for evolution, and by the example of Physics... Evolution without mathematical model is just-so story... some belive we will find this mathematical model, some believe in allready provoed theorems and knows that this is not the case! This is coz Evolution in general passes turings test, but turings test is test for Intelligence!

sam_sane_now

To shazard, yes evolution is just so so stories......so so stories backed up with reams and reams of evidence. Just what alternative are you providing here by stating that evolution is just stories, and where is your evidence for this counter claim?

golf2

You don't believe in god/s? So be it! Golf

Terry

Atheism can't find its way into my thinking. Logically, the idea that a person who is invisible runs things is kind of ludicrous. I can only fault traditional ideas, concepts, definitions, myths and characterizations with failure to persuade.

Here is what stops me from going all the way and simply disavowing God altogether.

From the time I was conscious as a small child there has been this ___other____emanating from outside myself. Originally, this came from my parent's words, ideas, songs, readings and conversations.

I talked (one-sidedly) to this transcendance, this__other___the way a child will talk to a teddy bear or a doll.

I never heard anything (or "heard").

The strong sense that something/someone was----I won't say "listening"--but, rather, able to listen was at the root of my --we'll call it prayer--it was more like simply talking it out and being overheard.

When I became a Jehovah's Witness, I put a name to my sense of __other. Identity became solidified conceptually as Jehovah.

I talked to Jehovah and even discovered a methodology called "prayer". I hated the formal prayer, frankly. It was constructed. It was stilted. It was formal and awkward. It was self-conscious theatre. Still is. I missed the simply talking it out and being overheard aspect.

At one point, when I was in prison trying to "serve Jehovah" I came very close to feeling a "presence" in my consciousness that I would (at the time) feel was an overlap of this___other---with myself. Can't describe it any other way. Sorry about that.

After I was paroled and started Pioneering, this began to fade. I was being pulled in a different direction. I lost my innocent receptivity.

Some time in my early 30's I was praying one night. I suddenly experienced a vast and profound certainty: I WAS ONLY TALKING TO MYSELF!! The finality and certainty of that overwhelmed me! God was gone. "God" was gone. There was no ___other.

A hole right in the middle of me! A god-sized emptiness!

There was no sadness as much as there was......relief!

It was like being sick with a malevolent migraine all my life and suddenly being healed! The contrast was amazing!

I was "cured" of a mental illness!

But, I don't call myself Atheist. No.

I don't have the power, the certainty or the authority to declare anybody or anything null and void which I never could comprehend in the first place!

You see, I allow for the fact that I have merely been abandoned.

I'm agnostic, you see.

What I know is that I don't know.

2050

To Heathen (with respect)

Invisible forces molding life?

There are many observable processes that mold life. A good example is the molding of the dog that has been done by humans (artificial selection). This molding is only possible because of random mutations in DNA (these mutations can be observed). In nature the same thing happens, except the environment 'chooses' who gets to reproduce.

The fossil record doesn't support the tiny changes over long periods of time?

This is a common misconception. Either that or just voluntary ignorance. There are countless numbers of known transitions. Transitional fossils are found every day. Here is quite an important transition. http://www.daylightatheism.org/images/tiktaalik.jpg

They make huge leaps in logic to conclude it happened?

What about all the evidence? Does evidence not count for anything? When DNA tells us that all life has a common ancestor what are we to do? Should we walk away and pretend we didn't see anything?

That's why it's still called a theory of evolution (unproven hypothesis)

Another common misconception. Here's the funny thing. In science, a theory can be a fact too. Do we hear many people talk about the "hypothesis of evolution"? Many years ago evolution was just a hypothesis, then evidence accumulated and it was proven to be fact.

To Shazard (also with respect)

I think you have dug TOO deep. Maths? Physics? IT? Philosophy? I thought evolution was about genetic mutation.

Are you saying that evolution was invented just to back up the atheist viewpoint? If you are saying this, then maybe you should do some more digging. Atheism can stand very easily on its own due to the lack in evidence for any God. On the other hand, when we examine the evidence that we do have (evolution) we can see that God is not a necessary part of the equation.

I'm not sure how to respond to the irrelevant ramblings so I'm not going to try.

Mr Ben

Welcome SSN! You took the red pill, hmm?

So, all the creationists jumped on the newbie eh? Why don't some of you reply on my bed bugs thread - still waiting for ya! And there is BTS's odd turn of phrase again "the Dawkins".

SSN, you will find a colouful mix of characters here!

Atheism - The next and final logical step