Finding Faith

by Ima Apostate 54 Replies latest jw experiences

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  reniaa

  I don't think i could turn to another faith besides Jw's my mind would just keep asking how many bible scriptures will I have to mentality blank out to become this religion. The trinity is too big a stumbling block, I'd have to go lalala and humm a little every time I see a scripture saying Jesus is God's son or pretend it actually says "manifestation of God on earth soon to be rejoined to him instead"

  Better to become an atheist if I can't follow the bible but that thought is just too depressing a thought lol
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  trevor

  Ima Apostate

  It was not my intention to divert your thread in to a debate with Burn the Ships. Still what I said was very much to do with the question you asked.

  How many of you ex-JW kids were able to believe in mainstream Christianity after leaving the Borg?

  Clearly I have not bee able to perform the mental gymnastics that are required to make a whole jigsaw from all the fragmented pieces found in the Bible, which I had assumed was the handbook for Christians?

  I wish you well in you faith and hope that It continues to bring you the comfort and peace that you need.

  Trevor
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  BurnTheShips

  It is true that as you say, ‘The Christian faith is not a religion of a book.’ By The Bible is THE Book upon which Christians place their faith.

  The Bible informs our faith. I don't believe in a book, I believe in God.

  If it is just a man made historical account in which God or Christ had no part, we have to ask why they have not come forward and made this clear. Even cheap tabloids publicly correct their mistakes.

  It is a historical account--in parts. And God had a part in history. That said, everything that is in the Bible, is there for a reason. As I said previously God speaks in the Bible through human beings in a human way. You seem to take a superficial gloss of the book. In order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us by what is written, we should carefully investigate what meaning the writers really intended, and what God wanted to to teach us by means of their words. We see a progression of revelation in the OT history of Israel and a growing clarity and understanding of God. We see this culminate in the NT with the coming of Jesus Christ. Our understanding continues to grow.

  I could claim to be a Moslem who has rejected the Koran as holy and inspired and taken a sophisticated view of its analogical language. The millions of Moslems who would die to defend the Koran would take great exception to my claim and no doubt wish me dead. Such is the mindset of many religious people.

  The Muslim view of the Koran is very different from the orthodox Christian view. The Koran is the Word of God to a Muslim. It is directly spoken by God. There is no human agency involved at all. For a Christian, the Word of God is not a book, but Jesus Christ. However, what a Muslim thinks of the Koran has nothing to do with me as a Chrisitian.

  You appear to be a Christian who has rejected God’s Word the Bible. I would imagine that most Christians would take exception to your claim and expect you to be among those enveloped ‘in flaming fire,’ as stated in previously quoted 2 Thessalonians 1:8

  I hope you see now that I have not rejected the Bible. As for understanding 2 Thessalonians 1:8, this post by Tom Cabeen explains well the destiny of those that reject God:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/157916/2908688/post.ashx#2908688

  As far as I am concerned you are free invent and then adopt any set of beliefs that you find comforting. Free to edit or reject any holy book that you choose to. But why try to muscle in on the Christian lapel badge? Just invent a new badge to go with your beliefs.

  I think your perplexity in "badging" me reveals some uninformedness on your own part. Please investigate a bit. Your posting here seems to indicate that your experience with Christianity seems to have been only with certain narrow fundamentalist branches and "Christian" groups like the JWs. I am not muscling into anything. What I have posted here is authentically Christian.

  Perhaps ‘Liberal Freethinker,’ would be a nice name. Hell, I may even buy a badge off you and wear it with pride myself.

  I like that badge. But I that is not the only one I wear.

  Cheers,

  BurnTheShips
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  BurnTheShips

  Clearly I have not bee able to perform the mental gymnastics that are required to make a whole jigsaw from all the fragmented pieces found in the Bible, which I had assumed was the handbook for Christians?

  Hi Trevor, not to debate, but the Bible is not a handbook for Christians. It was never meant to be one. Look at it, is that how a guide or handbook is written? Could someone who has never heard of Christianity pick it up, read it, and walk away with an accurate comprehensive knowledge of what the faith is about?

  BTS
• 

  sweet pea

  I was desperate when I left not to lose my faith in everything. I went to a hip and trendy Anglican church and it was wonderful - amazing music, great sermons, and classes for the kids to keep them occupied. I couldn't fault it and was pleasantly surprised after all the church bashing from the society. Satan most definitely didn't seem to be present there and I wasn't struck down by lightning, LOL.
  
  However, having been lied to on such a big scale, a little voice in the back of my head was telling me to thoroughly check everything out. Having done that I now cannot say that I follow/believe in any religion - it just seems to poison everything ultimately. If God is there, he has a lot to answer for as to why he has been so elusive and made everything so confusing and woolly. I guess you could call me Agnostic.
  
  Interestingly, a dear JW friend of mine predicted once I was gone I would end up not believing in anything - she wasn't wrong there. What I have realised is that when something is so far fetched you need faith to believe it because reason and science seems to blow it all out of the water. What I thought was a connection with my creator turned out to be wishful thinking. Lately, as I've been doubting God he does not seem to have made any effort to let me know he cares - if He is the Father he claims to be and is all powerful then surely he should be more communicative then my earthly father!
  
  Sorry if this comes across as negative. We are all on a journey and all entitled to believe in anything we want but we shouldn't be afraid to question everything otherwise we're no better than JWs and we shouldn't fear questioning our faith either - I feel no less happy without the strong faith that I had - my life is not much different these days - better in most respects ironically.
  
  Just my 2 cents.
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  trevor

  BurnTheShips

  According to the Bible God’s chosen ones are to a have their robes washed white in the blood of the lamb. But like brands of washing powder some Christian sects wash whiter than others.

  Thank you for taking the time to explain to me how you view the Bible.

  Unfortunately the more I listen to liberal Christians versus traditional Christians the further I feel the need to distance myself from Christianity in all its many forms.

  After 2000 years of debate and war over Christianity there are now more opinions than ever on what it means to be a Christian. Causing many people to conclude that Christianity is a discredited business that has served the Church more than God or mankind.

  The average post on this forum demonstrates an ability to communicate, that God or Christ have failed to master. The result is a failure to inform humans clearly and precisely of their requirements and plans. Any President who was this inept would be hounded out of office. I meant to say - should be hounded out of office - I forgot about Bush.

  Ima Apostate, who started this thread stated:

  And oh my god, the first time I took communion, it was like heaven. I cried almost every day in the weeks leading up to my baptism.

  It is the placing of such unquestioning trust in a concept that is so disputed and capricious, that find concerning. You seem sincere and would perhaps point out that I have not come to know 'The joy of Christ.' Before I could become a Christian I would have to be sure that I was buying into the brand that washes the whitest.

  trevor
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  BurnTheShips

  Before I could become a Christian I would have to be sure that I was buying into the brand that washes the whitest.

  Seems to me, that you are already buying into a brand--of something.

  Nature abhors a vacuum.

  Cheers,

  BTS
• 

  trevor

  BurnTheShips

  On many other threads you quote the bible with great precision even highlighting words to emphasise their importance and significance. In other words you quote from the Bible as your absolute authority to ‘prove’ your points.

  Yet on this thread, entitled finding faith, you make it clear that you only accept parts of the Bible and even then have a subjective opinion on how they should be understood. You say among other things:

  The Bible account was written from a human perspective. An ancient and more primitive one.

  Why support your claims by quoting from a book that you describe in this way?

  Such duplicity does nothing to help people see the bible as more than a rather poor work of fiction. Some would say it was dishonest of you but I see it as a sincere attempt to defend your beliefs at all costs because of the value you place on them.

  I understand this because like many other on this board we have all been there and will not trust again unless the facts are clear and indisputable. If God cannot provide such information then I must conclude that he is either unable or unwilling to - or does not exist at all.

  trevor
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  Shazard

  Nice to see how ppl change their belief in God into belief into "science and reason" only again... they fall into believing something they do not investigate critically. Ppl say "science and reason" but really they represent plain dogmatic faith into evidentalism and branch of phylosophy called - phylosophical materialism. When one mixes and confuses methodological naturalism with phylosophical naturalism, they are trapped. And trapped into very deep hole not much different then JW. The same dogmatic basic belief which can't be challenged without fear of being expelled from "reasonalble society of scientific ppl" the same arrogance against anyone (particularry traditional Christianity) the same ego-centric reasoning!
  
  When you aske one of this materialistic breed - why do they believe - answer boils down to two traditional answers - also they do not admit these are the answers, but when one things about it, it becomes pretty clear
  
  1st answer - My Governing Body (British, American scientists) told so, I read it and saw it on Discovery
  2nd answer - I have experienced so, and meny ppl have epxerimental experience so! And if I have subjective experience of something, then it is objective truth. But If I do NOT have subjective experience and even don't have idea how to obtain such experience, that is Rock-Hard proof that objectively the thing is impossible logically.
  
  All this ofcoruse assumes that materialist is guru in logical reasoning and epistimological systems!
  
  Have seen usual kitchen-level materialists and naturalists, you can eazely get them into the same state JW posses - name calling, ad-hominem, straw-man, well-poisinonig, genetic fallacies and all other stuff they try to through at you when you just destroy their own belief system and try to make them think critically about all daer doctrines of materialism they keep so dear and holy!
  
  Most dangerous thing with materialists is to ask them something about their source of their morals... when they come with "majoritarism" argument you through them Nazi and Communism as good exapmple and they become angry... :)
  
  I believe in Christ as most reasonable and most logical System I encountered in my life.
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  sweet pea

  Shazard - sounds like you were having a dig at me?! Nice one.
  
  Who knows, you could be right, as I said we're all entitled to our opinion - I'm sorry if I wound you up, I didn't mean to - I have not come to any definite conclusions, as I said I consider myself agnostic right now. But many highly intelligent ones on this board who are much more eloquent (Terry, please help?) have come to similar conclusions about faith/religion/God/Jesus.
  
  What I would like to ask you is how come there is absolutely NO historical evidence to support the existence of Jesus? Couldn't the Almighty make sure that we weren't left in any doubt that He existed? This is not meant to be a dig but an honest humble curiosity of mine....