by Terry 39 Replies latest jw friends
In the 16th chapter of Acts, Jesus had Paul carry His message into Europe ... I'll let your fertile mind connect the dots.
Those who are not fortunate? enough to possess the latest technology are also the ones who won't be expecting Him, right?
I think my explanation is more plausible than the invisible parousia!
I must have a poverty of imagination! I don't understand what you're driving at. Be kind enough to spell it out for me, please.
Peace to you!
So, men control God by their behavior? I don't think so!
No, really, it's true.
God is not forced into action by the deeds of men.
Of course, He is.
Men are, by his perfect standard, corrupt
If you're going by the "perfect" standard, yes, that is correct...
and worthy of death.
This is true, too.
He has pre-emptive summary execution written all over him.
Oh, and so you've seen Him so that you can say that, have you?
The children who made fun of Elisha were torn to shreds by a she bear which God sent to execute judgement. Was it more than Jehovah could "bear"?
See, this is what gets me: you... and folks like you... take your "vision" of God from the Bible... and accounts such as this. Yet, you are angry with Him, so much so that you heap ridicule upon Him, all the while considering yourself to be "knowledgable." Let me ask you, and you tell me, please, IF God is such the heinous, vengeful, ready to return evil for evil, kind of being that YOU believe He is, by means of accounts such as this... why do YOU... not FEAR Him? Why hasn't He struck your puny little b'hind down? You can't have it both ways, dear Terry - either He IS a God of mercy, such that you can speak of Him as you do... and yet live... or you should watch your step. Right?
Now, with that said, I would like to expound TRUTH... about that account and the way of the TRUE God... more correctly to you: the account is false. It is one of many falsities of "the Bible"... that my ancient forefathers used to wreak fear among their enemies... and their fellowman. To control them. I have been permitted to post on this site... over and over and over and over again... "the Bible"... and what it contains... is NOT "all scripture." It has been tampered with... and will yet be tampered with. Things have been added... things have been taken away. Some of the books are NOT inspired... by God OR Christ... and some writings that WERE inspired [by God]... are not included.
How do you know what IS? Well, you can simply TEST "the inspired expression"... just as "the Bible" SAID you should do. That's one way. Another way, particularly when it comes to knowing what God IS like... is to look at His image: Christ. The image of God and the invisible representation of His very being. I ask you... whether you turn to the Bible for the answer or not... where is it written that Christ "returned evil for evil" to ANYONE? Whom did he bring calamity upon? Did he not, even at the last hour, ask that his enemies be FORGIVEN? He did. And yet, he said that HE... "came to bear witness... to the TRUTH." The truth about what? The TRUTH... about God. HE said that everything he knew... and everything he did... he received... from the Father. That just he SAW the Father DOING... he DID.
So, you can continue in your contradictory exercise of attempting to know the TRUE God... by using what you've read in the Bible. But you will never accurately reconcile what you read there... with what He IS. For much of it... is false.
Men act according to their nature.
Indeed.
Their human nature, that is.
For the most part, yes.
This human nature, since Adam, is de facto unworthy of life. It is only by God's special grace (undeserved kindness) they exist at all. {On another thread I raised the issue of how God justified UNDESERVED kindness toward man since there is no just basis. That went more or less unanswered.}
I am sorry I missed that, but I agree with you here...
I've stated that the high expectation of sudden reversal of status (faithful rewarded and wicked punished) held by Messianic Jews deteriorated into self-action (rebellion against Rome which brought swift destruction) and consequences. The Christianized Jews were divided into two camps more or less. One camp declared Jesus a new kind of Messiah (suffering and dying and resurrected). The other camp declared Jesus more than an ethnic liberator, but, a demi-god.
Okay...
Either way, the core subject here is MAN'S REACTION to his own expectations and how humans keep justifying failed expectations by changing their premise.
Okay, and, again, I agree...
God's mercy is just another way of saying "WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN DIDN'T HAPPEN."
Ahhhh, I see! And I disagree. I agree that many USE the premise of the HOPE of God's mercy to excuse their false prophecies. Some use God, some use "the fates," some use "karma"... some use "the universe." It is our "nature" to excuse our foibles... personal or community. That, too, started with Adam, yes? True, he BLAMED God... and many of us do, too. But some do not; rather, they realize that THEY were wrong, not God.
But I think that's not what you mean here; I think what you mean is that my position that God has not acted because of His mercy is just a way of saying that what I thought was going to happen didn't/hasn't happned. And you couldn't further from wrong. I have NEVER "craved the day of JAH." Never. I have never wanted "the end" to come. True, I know it will... and true, I am expecting a releasing as a result... but my puny little life... whether in flesh OR in spirit... has never been worth those that will be lost.
And I have never thought that it should... or would... come in my lifetime. Given that the TRUE day... Armageddon... doesn't occur until AFTER the 1,000 years have ended, and the 1,000 years don't even start until my Lord returns such that EVERY eye will see him... and he hasn't yet returned... what would be the POINT? None... other than a gleeful delight in seeing Gog and Magog destroyed. Which is... and has always been... to ME... one of the most repulsive desires I can imagine. I use to HATE it when the "brothers/sisters" would leave the door of someone who wasn't "interested"... while mumbling "goat" under their breath. How HATEFUL!! How UNLOVING!! How the heck do WE know who the Most Holy One will reserve? God shows mercy to whomever HE wishes.
That makes your response fit in to the category of a kind of excuse or rationalization men come up with to explain the so-called delay.
Yes, I thought that was what you meant.
"Oh, God is showing mercy that is why Jesus hasn't returned yet."
Well, actually, I did not answer that in entirety. My Lord has not returned... because our "place"... has not yet been fully prepared... AND... not all of "us" have been sealed [in our foreheads].
"Oh, Jehovah is holding back on Armageddon so that every one who can be saved has a chance."
These are not the same thing, not at all. There's at least 1,000 years separating the two.
None of this makes a bit of sense because the delay itself allows more time for more humans to be born THUS NEEDING MORE TIME FOR THEIR OWN CHANCE.
Thus, adding to the number that WILL be saved... contrary to the LIES propagated by our Adverary.
See? What is needed is an addendum to the prophecy declaring no more children will be born to humanity after a certain point. The ones already alive are allowed to reach an age of maturity and choice. THEN, the end comes.
Why would that be necessary? What you write here suggests that children can't know God. But you are incorrect. Indeed, some knew Him, by means of knowing Christ... before they were ever born. You assume that our life starts only when we come into this world.
But, that is too far-sighted, logical and plain spoken to have been set down in scripture.
Actually, it's not. Could be it'll end up as it did at Sinai afterall: where only those age 20 and UNDER... were saved (oh, Lordy, now don't go running all over creation teaching THAT!).
You really ought to read your Bible carefully, dear Terry, if you're gonna use it to try malign the Most Holy One of Israel.
I bid you peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
That is like saying that sin forced the sacrifice of Jesus. God was not forced, God willingly chose.
Your are in error, dear BTS; but only because you don't know the Most Holy One of Israel. You and others like you make all sorts of speculations about who and what He is... and why and how He acts... all without knowing Him at all.
Why do you do it? If someone did that to you... or someone you loved... you'd scream bloody murder. Deride them with manner of words. And yet, you do it to the Most Holy One of Israel. Wouldn't it be better to at least try and get to know a person before you pass judgment on Him? It would.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
that I am amazed (may you all have peace!). You all appear to decry the teachings of the WTBTS... and, yet... you still hang on to their teachings. Why IS that? I need to clear something up:
So far world conditions have not reached the point of distress to where God feels the need to intervene and save his people from complete annihilation
God will not intervene in the world's "conditions"... no matter HOW bad they get! When my Lord walked the earth in the flesh, all kinds of things were going on outside the land of Judea. I ask you, what did he say of such things? Did he condemn those who were not "Israel"? Not "christian"? What did he say would occur with Caesar? How about the Mongols? Those on the Dark Continent? How about the Greeks?
His kingdom... IS NO PART OF THIS WORLD.
It is when Gog and Magog attempt to COME AGAINST THE HOLY CITY... the KINGDOM OF GOD... that the Most Holy One of Israel will act. It is not when Gog and Magog come against the world... and so, in order to save His people... God acts. That is false teaching of the WTBTS. It is when Gog and Magog "encircle the camp of the Holy City"... which camp and city are made up of the BODY of Christ...NEW Jerusalem... the "city" of "double peace"... made up of Christ (the Foundation Cornerstone), the Apostles (the Foundation), the Prophets (the Pillars)... and my brothers and sisters ("living stones")... in order to ENTER among them and EAT... from the Tree of Life... so that they might live... FOREVER... that God will act.
And He will act... because He has NO choice. If He does NOT act... these WILL "enter"... and "eat." And live forever... such that THEN the Holy Ones will be at risk. Gog and Magog will be destroyed... will HAVE to be destroyed... before that could ever happen.
Come, you Bible touters: read your Bible. Then presume to debate over what will or will not happen... and when... per "the Bible." OR... go to the Source and get it straight from the "horse's mouth"... pure... unadulterated.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
Yah they did screw everybody with the sudden switch on the superior authorities , if the world ended invisibly in 1914 then that means that the worlds political leaders no longer would have superior authority . I only saw that on the board here in the last couple of years .I haven't seen that in a publication from what I can recall .I think blondie wrote about that. The I am coming quickly part only makes sense since he apparently didn't yet still talks about destroying all his enemies in Revelation . Right now people have to suffer evil to prove themselves righteous .IMO
See, this is what gets me: you... and folks like you... take your "vision" of God from the Bible... and accounts such as this. Yet, you are angry with Him, so much so that you heap ridicule upon Him, all the while considering yourself to be "knowledgable." Let me ask you, and you tell me, please, IF God is such the heinous, vengeful, ready to return evil for evil, kind of being that YOU believe He is, by means of accounts such as this... why do YOU... not FEAR Him? Why hasn't He struck your puny little b'hind down? You can't have it both ways, dear Terry - either He IS a God of mercy, such that you can speak of Him as you do... and yet live... or you should watch your step. Right?
Fact #1 There are actually no reliable sources of information about God, there are only assertions.
Fact #2 God is, by definition, all-powerful and all-knowing. Consequently, in order to BE God, He has the upper hand and nothing is out of His control
Fact #3 The chaos, stupidity, sickness, death, etc. in our world alone is enough to refute the qualities of Justice and Love inherent in God's Soverignty.
Conclusion: Nobody is really in control of the Universe. So, there is nobody to fear.
We only deal with hearsay when we talk of God. Anybody who purports to speak on behalf of God (like the FDS) are either delusional or lying.
How can I be certain of this? Because nobody has "inside" information corresponding to reality.
I wondered when you were going to drop the pretense of the ethereal and benevolent spirit guru and get down to knuckles and spit :)
Welcome to planet Earth.
I must have a poverty of imagination! I don't understand what you're driving at. Be kind enough to spell it out for me, please.In the 16th chapter of Acts, Jesus had Paul carry His message into Europe ... I'll let your fertile mind connect the dots.
Those who are not fortunate? enough to possess the latest technology are also the ones who won't be expecting Him, right?
I think my explanation is more plausible than the invisible parousia!
You, Terry? A "poverty of imagination"? ROFL. Get real, man.
I was driving at the fact that Europe was to be the place from which the Christian Message would most effectively spread.
History has borne testimony to that fact. Jesus knew what He was doing.
Sylvia
Fact #1 There are actually no reliable sources of information about God, there are only assertions.
You are in error. The FACT that YOUR sources of information are unreliable doesn't mean there are NO reliable sources.
Fact #2 God is, by definition, all-powerful and all-knowing. Consequently, in order to BE God, He has the upper hand and nothing is out of His control
Whose "definition"? His... or yours/earthling man's?
Fact #3 The chaos, stupidity, sickness, death, etc. in our world alone is enough to refute the qualities of Justice and Love inherent in God's Soverignty.
No, they are enough to refute such qualities in our Adversary... and in our fellowman, starting with Adham.
Conclusion: Nobody is really in control of the Universe. So, there is nobody to fear.
Again, that is an error. "Control" has been given to various persons. And what you see going on is the result of that "control"... or, rather, the abuse of it. But you are correct: there is absolutely no one to fear, except, perhaps, the One who can "kill the body AND the spirit... in Gehenna." But even He doesn't want our fear. Rather, He wants our surpassing love... for Him AND for our fellowman.
We only deal with hearsay when we talk of God.
Another error: "YOU" only deal with hearsay. "WE"... deal with reality.
Anybody who purports to speak on behalf of God (like the FDS) are either delusional or lying.
If that "anybody" is not the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUAH MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, the TRUE God, whose name is JAH of Armies... you are absolutely correct: they are delusional and/or lying.
How can I be certain of this? Because nobody has "inside" information corresponding to reality.
Yet, another error. There is One. And only One.
I wondered when you were going to drop the pretense of the ethereal and benevolent spirit guru and get down to knuckles and spit :)
The fact that you don't like... well, no, GET... where I am "coming from" is your deficiency, not mine. It does not have to be that way, however.
Welcome to planet Earth.
No need for an intro: I've been here all along and am WELL acquainted. You, however, might want to condescend YOUR lofty perception... that this "world" is all there is... and consider the possibility that something... and someone... exists BESIDES you and me. That you can't SEE or HEAR them... does not mean, to me, someone who can and does... that you are superior. Nor does it mean that because I can and do, that I am superior. Quite the contrary, actually. However, if I were to withhold from you what SHOULD be shared with you... then I would be culpable.
The "handicap" is your, however, dear Terry, in that you have been lied to SO much... and SO long... by those who CLAIM to know God... who have a FORM of "godlly devotion," that even if the Master himself were to appear to you in the flesh, you would not believe it. You would be like Thomas, who need empirical proof. And that's okay - that's between you and him and you have to deal with that. I learned, however, that when my Lord said, "Happy are those who do NOT see (with they physical eyes)... and STILL believe... for the kingdom of God belongs to THEM"... he knew what he was saying... and meant it.
What you DON'T see... is that you... and folks like you... are really VERY similar to the Pharisees of the days of my Lord in the flesh. Then, my Lord came upon a physically blind man whose eyes he opened. That man had been blind from birth, so everyone knew he had been healed. When the Pharisees asked him HOW he was healed... and he truthfully told them that my Lord had done so... they ridiculed him... chastised him... and threw him out of the synagogue. Expelled him. "Disfellowshipped" him.
I experienced the very same thing when I TRUTHFULLY shared what I was given with the "leaders" of the WTBTS. I did not lie to them as to who had opened MY eyes and ears. Yet, they could not have it: they "weeped and gnashed their teeth" to an amazing extent, ridiculed me... and then tossed me out.
You, too, would to the very same thing. How, then, can you have ANY problem with ANYTHING they do... when, when it comes right down to it, YOU do the SAME thing? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite - for aren't you doing the very same thing you judge them for doing (mistreating anyone who speaks the truth to them?)
I do not use my gift for gain: I am not selling anything, nor do I ask anything of anyone. I received free... I give free. If I am false, however, will it not be shown up? Of course, it will. And if that's the case what, then, do YOU have to fear... and WHY do you fear it?
Some things you might want to take a moment and think about, dear Terry.
I bid you peace.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ, regardless of whether YOU believe it or not,
SA
In the 16th chapter of Acts, Jesus had Paul carry His message into Europe ... I'll let your fertile mind connect the dots.
Those who are not fortunate? enough to possess the latest technology are also the ones who won't be expecting Him, right?
I think my explanation is more plausible than the invisible parousia!
I was driving at the fact that Europe was to be the place from which the Christian Message would most effectively spread.
History has borne testimony to that fact. Jesus knew what He was doing.
Sylvia
The Christian message, as I recall, spread in all directions, did it not?
Surely, at least ONE of those places would end up at the top o' the heap in effectiveness.
You seem to be reverse engineering in your reasoning.
Think of it this way, If I take a single shot rifle out to the shooting range and hit the bull's eye with my only shot, then, I'm an expert marksman.
But, if I take a machine gun and fire off hundreds of rounds and happen to hit a bull's eye, it would be a very generous appraisal to make that into a feat of skill, acumen and expertise.
No?
Your are in error, dear BTS; but only because you don't know the Most Holy One of Israel. You and others like you make all sorts of speculations about who and what He is... and why and how He acts... all without knowing Him at all.
Why do you do it? If someone did that to you... or someone you loved... you'd scream bloody murder. Deride them with manner of words. And yet, you do it to the Most Holy One of Israel. Wouldn't it be better to at least try and get to know a person before you pass judgment on Him? It would.
If you take issue start a thread otherwise.....
