A kind response to Jim Penton & Ros of Channel C

by Amazing 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • vinoverita
    vinoverita

    Hi Quietly Leaving,

    >>I have to disagree with you - all scholarly works must be approached with skepticism and doubt and their works taken with a pinch of salt. Bias and assumptions creeps in unintentionally and sometimes intentionally. Religion more so than other fields because of the emotions involved>>

    I don't disagree with you. My only distinction is that it's not *necessarily* the case that a scholar's position be biased. It *can* reflect that which is true, that which aligns with reality otherewise the search for objective truth would be a matter of total subjectivity.

    <<Scholars can verify one another but still all scholarly fields have their controversies. There is no one universal truth regarding the past. We can deepen our knowledge of a given field but we would need to consider what those who disagree have to say about the topic too. That would be the honest thing to do.<<

    I agree.

    James

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    James C,

    Concerning the subject of scholarly bias. I can't help but think that the conclusions you have reached, regarding the Roman Catholic Church's highly questionable doctrine of "apostolic succession" and its related claims to divine authority, may have been biased by your being regularly paid by Catholic churches for performing in them and by the praise that is, no doubt, regularly heaped upon you therein by members of both the RCC's clergy and laity.

  • vinoverita
    vinoverita

    Hi A Christian,

    >>Concerning the subject of scholarly bias. I can't help but think that the conclusions you have reached, regarding the Roman Catholic Church's highly questionable doctrine of "apostolic succession" and its related claims to divine authority>>

    The belief of apostolic succession is not a distinctly Roman one. The Orthodox as well as the Anglicans hold to it. In point of fact, so did just about all of the gnostics. That is to say, it was the universal teaching of the Church. One cannot find anyone seriously questioning it for the first 3/4 of Christian history.

    To believe in it, therefore, does not require a bias. Contrarily, to disbelieve in it requires a conspiracy theory of Watchtower proportions since all of the evidence (i.e the Universal testimony and praxis of the Church) militates against it. I'm not that cynical of the Church or historic data to fly in the face of evidence or to impute imbecility or infidelity to the entire body of Christ.

    When Eusebius sets out to write the first classic history of the Church (outside that of the Acts of the apostles found in holy writ) he starts his work with the words:

    "The cheif matters to be dealt with in this work are the following: a)The lines of succession from the holy apostles, and the periods that have elapsed from our savior's time to our own."

    >>may have been biased by your being regularly paid by Catholic churches for performing in them and by the praise that is, no doubt, regularly heaped upon you therein by members of both the RCC's clergy and laity>>

    The Catholic Church does not necessitate that those in her employ be Catholic. I sang as a cantor in the Church for five years before I was baptized a Catholic. During those years I had many obstacles that I worked out in my faith through study and prayer. Sad to say, almost no one (and that includes priests) encouraged me to become Catholic. I did so on my own.

    I have many other cantor friends who sing in the Catholic Church and are Evangelicals. Plus, I very rarely get anything close to praise heaped on me. The liturgy is geared toward praising the Father, through the Son in the Holy Spirit. Most of the music I sing is highly subdued and even chant-like. Besides a few altar boys and girls, the priests and the organist, I don't so much as exchange a word with parishioners after mass, much less receive their praise. Singing in Evangelical Churches, however, was a different story.

    http://www.catholicxjw.com/jamescaputo.html

    Peace,

    James P. Caputo

  • Scully
    Scully

    I tend to agree with the people who say that JWD is not the place for airing disagreements that have erupted on another forum, regardless of whether the people involved are members of JWD or not.

    This thread is locked for the time being while the moderators clarify the situation.

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