by momzcrazy 143 Replies latest social current
Even better, if you could have a surprlus of electricity that you put back into the grid forcing the electric companies to send you a check each month.
Oooohh, I had a friend who just converted his home two months ago. He said he just received a check for $13 from the power company.
Cool beans.
Good thread by the way. I appreciate the discussion and all the views. I sure don't know the answer. I have always felt two old men are running the world, and they own oil companies. JK.
I have no problem admitting that I'm at fault for making bad choices. Ah what the hell, I'll even take full responsibility for the entire world's energy crisis as it seems the majority want to put the blame on the backs of the elected officials, whom we put into office.
I don't understand why people have an inability to be accountable for their own actions and accept their equal ownership in the problem. Instead they look to blame someone else. Big oil companies, mid east countries, government, etc.
Oh really.
And what other choices are there? Oh I know I could live close to downtown Dallas, where I work, and put my kids through slummy schools so I can walk to work is that it? Yeah that'll save the nation half a barrel of oil. Never mind the poor schooling, or the gangs that might attack them -- hey I'm saving the United States of America ONE HALF OF A BARREL OF OIL PER YEAR.
Oh and please tell me the electric cars that were available for puchase in 1985. Or 1995. Or 2005. Or what car was available that did not leave a carbon foot print?
And since you know so much more than stupid ol' me, please tell me what electricity options were available to the average consumer the past 30 years besides the state run utility that operates on oil or coal?
Dallas's version of mass transit until the past 8-10 years was diesel powered buses. Arlington, Texas is the largest city in America without any mass transit system. But then it's those idiots' fault for moving to Arlington right? What morons for not investigating the carbon impact Arlington has on the planet. Burn 'em for their stupidity.
Geez dude, does it feel good to be that smug and have all the answers?
You know, yeah I've made mistakes, good God almighty have I made them. I can list them alphabetically and chrnologically. Mine have more to do with people and money frankly and less to do with the environment. But that's another subject.
I've said voters elected politicians who told them what they wanted to hear. Frankly my sworn enemy is the suburban soccer mom in the SUV on the cell phone (I swear to God more accidents have been caused avoiding that woman). Yeah I see SUV's all the time, and yes they are making a poor "green" choice. No argument there. What do want? Blood? Hell string up anyone in an SUV, is that what you want?
But again, I say, and will say again and again if Reagan or Bush or Clinton had presented a forward-thinking plan regarding renewable sources of energy and real, legitimate choices had been put in the marketplace, I'm sorry but I think consumers would have gone for it. Not everyone. But enough to make the new technology and industry viable, and therefore cheaper, until more consumers voted with their pocketbook and bought the hydrogen powered car not because it was greener but because it was cheaper. What would have happened in the mid-90's if Congress put an extra sales tax on SUV's, or later, Hummers? You think maybe sales would have been kept down?
You know what, most people are more concerned with meeting bills to the next paycheck than they are about how big their carbon footprint is. That those in charge did not make an effort to do so, says more about them than it does the average consumer.
But those alternatives choices have never been given to the average consumer. I'm talking about the guy who struggles to make the next paycheck. And frankly that's the majority of consumers out there. Not all, but the majority. Give choices and let the markeplace decide. It's happened before, but not now.
I'm not blaming the Middle East. Nowhere in this thread have you seen anything from me blaming those countries from getting whatever they can. I have blamed several times on this board since I've been here in 2002 the government much moreso than the average consumer.
Telling me I have to walk a mile each way from the grocery store is NOT a real solution. Can I walk a mile? Well yeah. If there is no other choice, of course I can carry groceries a mile. But that's not realistic. Nor is it telling me it's MY fault because my city has no mass transit. Now am I blameless? Of course not. But which candidate the past 30 years would have set up alternative energy sources to cheap oil? Give me names, platforms, and which candidates for Congress, state and local would have followed it up? This is a nationwide problem, not Joe Schmo.
I will not argue everyone shares blame, but I still maintain the leadership of this country has done a piss poor job in this area. And I still maintain that if, after the gas lines of the 70's the national government instituted measures to save energy, and announced attempts to find renewable energy sources, even if it meant taxes were raised, I still maintain people would have backed it. I do remember gas lines and I do remember the national mood back then. Instead they cozied up to the oil companies and told the voters cheap oil would be here.
And I still say it's not too late. All it takes is someone who's willing to get the bureacracy moving in that direction. That's easier at the top than it is at the bottom.
Chris
Yeah I see SUV's all the time, and yes they are making a poor "green" choice. No argument there. What do want? Blood? Hell string up anyone in an SUV, is that what you want?
I've already said what I want, and so far I've received it. Higher energy costs. When it affects the SUV driver's wallet, then that person will make a better choice. That same person will then demand more options and will receive them. When a majority of us have made better choices and demand changes, it will then happen.
I'm not smug, nor do I have all(or any) of the answers. I just have a different view point. I also enjoy reading about your opinion.
And I still say it's not too late.
I agree. I believe there is plenty of time to come up with solutions. Now that we have the incentive, I hope that it will happen.
http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx
Here is gas pricing by the county. BTW notice something fishy. (hint : Wyoming)
Here is gas pricing by the county. BTW notice something fishy. (hint : Wyoming)
Nothing fishy (I suspect you are trying to dredge up a Cheney connection), Wyoming has the lowest state gas tax in the contiguous United States:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/245.html
It also has some of the most relaxed pollution regs, which also affect the price in a downwards direction. It is a very open state that way, no speed limits in places.
Instead of trying to find a conspiracy in everything as you seem to generally do 5GO, you would be better served to look at the facts a bit more.
BTS
Nothing fishy (I suspect you are trying to dredge up a Cheney connection), Wyoming has the lowest state gas tax in the contiguous United States:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/245.html
It also has some of the most relaxed pollution regs, which also affect the price in a downwards direction. It is a very open state that way, no speed limits in places.
Instead of trying to find a conspiracy in everything as you seem to generally do 5GO, you would be better served to look at the facts a bit more.
BTS
The highest speed limit is in Texas 80 MPH after Montana eliminated it's no speed limit being the only state to ever try it. Wyoming has a speed limit that is in line with most other states 65-70MPH. Also Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, and Montana are similarly less polluted and lacking environmental laws. Also most places in Wyoming are hard to deliver gas and less populated. Yet gas is cheaper there than in Texas why?
I'm sorry, I was thinking Montana with respect to speed limits. Still, that is not central to what I am saying.
Wyoming is an oil producing state and has several refineries. That, combined with low gas taxes, and clean air, means it has some of the lowest pump prices in the county..
As I said, nothing "fishy".
Wyoming is an oil producing state and has several refineries.
I live near, and work at one, yet this region's gas prices are the highest in Texas. This despite the panhandle having the most refineries in the state outside of the coastal plain region. Plus only having half a million people in the entire region to consume that gas that is produced.
BTW get ready for $5 by the end of the year $6 by next summer. World oil demand is stripping out world oil production by far and it isn't project to get any better.
I'm going to comment on this one last time because quite frankly I know it will fall on the deaf ears attached to the boneheads that insist everyone move to the CITY and that it's everyone else's OWN fault because they choose to live outiside of the city ....where True Paradise resides.
Take me down to the paradise city
Where the grass is green
And the girls are pretty
Strapped in the chair of the city's gas chamber
Why I'm here, I can't quite remember
The surgoen general say's it's hazardous to breathe
I'd have another cigarette
But I can't see
Tell me that you're gonna believe
On and on with the mantra of : "You CHOSE live away from the city, "You CHOSE a 28 mpg car instead of a 33mpg car.." Apparently, such ones have no idea of just how moronic their rhetoric sounds.
1.The entire portion of America's population CANNOT FIT in all of the cities ! What do you think would happen if everyone packed up right now and moved to the city ? Hmmmmm ? ....I thought so.No room=No room.How do the people get to their place of employment located far beyond the city outside of the reach of Public Transportation ? How many FARMERS plow the CITY PARK ?
2.The increase of gas prices has risen at such a dramatic rate people were not able to implement the changes they would have liked to have made.Which ties into...
3.The Housing bubble.House prices have FALLEN dramatically, while gas prices have RISEN dramatically.Selling your house in this market can cause more serious problems than keeping it.Why ? The final sale price of the house may very well NOT pay off the mortgage so now one is faced with BOTH a partial (or full) MORTAGE for a house they no longer own PLUS Rent for an apartment in the city.Just brilliant ! Unless, one is recommending foreclosure ;in which case the person might still wind up homeless if they don't have money for rent.
4.What is amazingly HYPOCRITICAL and apparently has failed to be noticed by such brainiacs is that they ACCUSE those here concerned about gas prices of "blaming everyone else and not taking responsibility for their actions", while they THEMSELVES blame those who had a "CHOICE" but "made a bad one" and that now THEY ARE to blame for the problem ! Hello McStupid ? Anyone home ? Isn't that passing the buck ? The claim, of course, is all those suffering from high gas prices should have sold their house, packed up the whole family,moved to a city (with no room, no jobs and high crime), and live out their days in a cramped apartment while singing the praises of the concrete jungle and "wonderful public transportation".I've been to many big cities: NYC,Philly,Tokyo, etc. and after a realtively short time I was ready to leave ! It's just not for me...or many others.Forgive me for not wanting to be one of those kids that never even saw a real live COW or a Bird of Prey,or DEER, or actual woods, clean air,beautifully scuplted farmland, wonderful sunsets free of smog,the scent of the land and wild flowers,picking berries right off the bush,real elbow room, etc., etc.Why should I have to give all that up because it's the "ONLY" real solution to the problem ?
5. Not feasible...by a long shot.I just read a story of a lady yesterday.Here's an excerpt...
Every summer, Peggy Powell looks forward to her family's reunion in southern West Virginia.
She's made the annual four-hour drive from Pittsburgh to Beckley since her children were small, and now her youngest is 45. But this year, Powell can't afford the trip she's always enjoyed as her summer vacation.
Rising gas and food prices will force her to stay home.
"I haven't been able to save any money. I just can't put any back," said Powell, 71, a retired hospital dietary department worker who supplements her income by working 20 hours a week as a school crossing guard."
I know, I know, it's the old lady's fault ! She should have just left her entire family, sold everything years ago and moved to the city where she can get mugged walk to get groceries.
You see, for decades this country has had gas hogs and their still wasn't a major problem like there is today.It is believed that this country has THREE TIMES the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia, but they remained untapped.After all,why should they spend money on more refineries and reduce their profits when they can just raise the price and make far more ?
Now, don't get me wrong....I think it's very important that one take responsibilty for their own actions but to imply that the real cause of the problem are American's who haven't bought "fuel efficient" cars and moved to the city is just downright idiotic !
The increased industrialization of other countries has also put a great strain on world oil supplies and the oil used by the USA also goes to benefit the countries that do business with them.If America falls what do you think will happen to the rest of the world as we know it ? It would most certainly have a domino effect...BIG TIME ! So any idiot who can't wait for the downfall of America better be prepared to take those words back when they don't have a pot to pee in because all they wanted was to blame America for the world's problems.Not that the war in Iraq has helped any.I mean, how much fuel do you think they've already used for their War Machines ? Gas is NOW four times the price it was BEFORE Iraq ! NO connection ? Oh no...of course not..anybody can see that.... Notice this comment:
Red Cavaney, president of the industry trade group American Petroleum Institute--not left-leaning types--puts the blame squarely on the invasion of Iraq, where unrest and violence has reduced production to less than they were under Saddam in the world's second-largest supplier. Traders of oil futures fix the price per barrel based on their expectations of political stability, especially in the world's largest oil-producing nations. And they don't like what they see in Iraq. "As soon as you can stabilize the civil situation," says Cavaney, "[Iraq will] significantly be able to ramp up production. But it would take years."
Adding to the high cost of crude oil, says former Louisiana senator and oil company lobbyist Bennett Johnston, is the Bush Administration's "saber rattling" against Iran. "We'd see gasoline prices of $5 or $6; crude oil above $100 if we bomb Iran," he predicts.
So voters are right. If Bush wants to bring down oil prices, he can. All he has to do is stop threatening war, and bring home the troops from Iraq.
And by the way, those comments were made back in 2006.So the war in Iraq, the largest Oil Reserves in the world, located right here in the USA, remain untapped.Doing so would not only eliminate dependency on Foreign Oil, but the US could make money by EXPORTING it ! Think about the fact that America has had muscle cars and big V8's for decades without major sustained problems like we're seeing now.Watch the documentary "Who killed the Electric Car ? " and you'll see that we're in the position we're in now because , yes, Big Oil, has been trying to do this for decades, but it looks like they'll get even more than what they wished for.
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita wrought major damage to refineries.U.S. refining capacity today is about 16 million barrels a day, about the same as it was in 1983, but the refineries run at much higher utilization rates.Disruptions in Nigeria, repairs to refineries in the Gulf od Mexico because of talk about military action against Iran, etc. All of these things, and more, are the result of piss poor decisions on the part of a Congressional Policies that work against the interests of economically priced oil and alternatives.The stifling of domestic oil and gas production and the suppression of new refineries and nuclear power plants have choked off the supplies of domestic energy, forcing us to rely on foreign oil.We do NOT have a shortage of oil.They have just been placed off limits and have been that way for decades.The American Petroleum Institute , or API, reports that opening up these areas would provide enough oil to power 60 million cars for 60 years, plus enough natural gas to heat 60 million homes for 160 years. But 85 percent of coastal waters have been declared off limits, along with similar restrictions on 75 percent of the onshore prospects.
That's why 60 percent of our oil is now imported. And these restrictions caused America to lose more than 1 million jobs in oil and gas during the past 25 years. How many "green collar" jobs have we gained to replace them?
Another reason for high gas prices: federal and state regulations that require dozens of "boutique fuels," dictating different blends of gas for different regions.A big part of boutique fuels is the ethanol mandate, now set by Congress at $18 billion a year, which shifted the corn supply from food to fuel. The mandate set off a domino effect as the government pays farmers to grow corn rather than other grains, and to sell it for fuel instead of food. And because corn is the major feed for livestock, the prices of meat, eggs, milk and so on climb along with prices for grain, flour, baked goods, etc
Solution ?
2. Open up reserve areas
3. Build refineries and nuclear power plants
4. End expensive and wasteful mandates, especially ethanol
5. Let the free market develop alternatives for the future
So is the problem REALLY the everyday average American who genuinely trusted the gonvernment to responsibly handle these issues ? Complacency has been the real problem and one unexpected disaster after another has resulted in a runaway train.
Face the fact that people not only don't want to ....but shouldn't have to move and that it wouldn't really change anything for the better anyway.The fact that many businesses that are needed to run the country are located well outside of the city.That public transportation cannot be used for many jobs (as discussed before).That not even those who would like to move can do so ; due to health,economic, etc. reasons.
But don't blame granny, don't blame the family doesn't want to move to the city, don't blame the person who doesn't want to make a 2 mile trip walking to get groceries, or any other inane idea.Just accept the fact that you consider yourself more noble and enlightened because your personal preferences have allowed you to make the choices YOU wanted to make.But don't vilify someone else because it doesn't fit with your own personal , self-righteous agenda.
This is not to say that benefits won't come as a result of all of this.Certainly, lifestyle changes are in order and can prove quite beneficial.Perhaps people will plant a garden to save money.Or engage in more activities that do not involve much,or any, money.In short, maybe people will slow down a bit in life and consider what's truly important.Unfortunately,as a species, this often doesn't come until we experience suffering.If we personally aren't suffering, or maybe not that much, because of the current economic crisis, then perhaps we can think about those that are, and not be blaming them for something for which they had little to do.
BTW get ready for $5 by the end of the year $6 by next summer. World oil demand is stripping out world oil production by far and it isn't project to get any better.
You may be right, but after a certain point you will start seeing demand destruction. Not to mention, a global recession would reduce demand considerably. I guess we'll see!
Give me a car that seats four comfortably and gets about 60 miles range out of the battery and is less than 25k-and I will buy it.
BTS
