http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/flds.ruling/index.html
FLDS Children:The court rules Against Texas
by CaptainSchmideo 11 Replies latest jw friends
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BizzyBee
Appeals Court Overturns Sect Custody Decision
- SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) -- A state appellate court has ruled that child welfare officials had no right to seize more than 400 children living at a polygamist sect's ranch.</form>
The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the grounds for removing the children were ''legally and factually insufficient'' under Texas law. They did not immediately order the return of the children.
Child welfare officials removed the children on the grounds that the sect pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and trained boys to become future perpetrators.
The appellate court ruled the chaotic hearing held last month did not demonstrate the children were in any immediate danger, the only measure of taking children from their homes without court proceedings.
Now what?
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CaptainSchmideo
This case really bothered me.
If there was evidence that the kids were being abused, physically or sexually, then yeah, they should have been protected. But where was the evidence? The raid was prompted by a "phone call" that has yet to be proven as real. Just because a religious group is unpopular is no basis for government raids. If that were the case, then JW conventions could be raided and the kids hauled off because of the blood transfusion doctrine. In some states, Catholics are a minority. Would it be right for such a state's welfare dept to come into a Catholic church and scoop up the kids because of pedophile priests? Where is the line drawn?
It's a tough situation. I wouldn't want to be the one who ultimately authorized the raid....
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james_woods
OK - wonderful news for the ACLU.
So, now - how do you explain all the broken bones, and the nearly twenty pregnant or already mothers teenage girls under eighteen?
I sometimes think that if some nut sack with followers got out in the desert and was practicing Aztec-style human heart ripping sacrifice to the sun gods, the politcal correct factions would see it as a religious freedom issue and defend them.
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wha happened?
exactly. James. OK so no one was caught in the act but hello!!! 14 years old and pregnant? It's not like these are test tube babies. But then again, our Chief-inator is from TX.
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chickpea
it can almost be seen as an agency's decision to err on the side of caution..... IF something sinister and untoward was being perpetrated against the children, the hue and cry that would have been raised for failing to protect the children would be deafening
tough call, but i hear what you are saying.... due process and rule of law cannot be disregarded with impunity
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CaptainSchmideo
I think you just describe a lot of inner cities in the US. Where are the raids on those neighborhoods? Don't those children and teens need rescuing as well?
If there WAS evidence of Aztec heart ripping, then we'd have a different story to tell. Unfortunately, the evidence coming in about this group showed that some of these child brides were actually older than first reported.
I agree with you, James. It's a terrible situation down there, I don't like seeing these kids being raised into this regressed way of life. But if the rule of law isn't followed, then we just open up the doors to all sorts of other abuses by the government, all in the guise of "helping" us.
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Mary
james wood said: So, now - how do you explain all the broken bones, and the nearly twenty pregnant or already mothers teenage girls under eighteen? I sometimes think that if some nut sack with followers got out in the desert and was practicing Aztec-style human heart ripping sacrifice to the sun gods, the politcal correct factions would see it as a religious freedom issue and defend them.
Bingo. We've had testamony from girls who are forced into marriages when they're 13 and 14 years old and whereby they're basically at the mercy of their new hubbies. With no education, virtually no knowledge of the outside world, these women and their children are brainwashed into believing that this way of life is "normal" which of course, it's not. With all the politically correct morons in power out there who will call a spade anything but a spade, this ruling doesn't surprise me in the least. What exactly is it going to take for the government to wake up and realize that cults like this one are not just some silly, slightly off-beat group who has a bit of a different outlook on life? Is it going to take dead bodies or another Jonestown??
Unbelievable.
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sammielee24
Now what?
Now what exactly.
We've all been waiting for the charges to be laid to back up the allegations but so far there have been none. We can't even get the facts from them. Despite hearing that there were 30 underage pregnancies, last count flashed on the news that they think that CPS mistook 24 of those women for being underage when they weren't. Last flash on the news indicates that of that remaining 6 underage prenancies, that might be reduced to 1 being under 16 due to Texas law changes in 2005. So where do we go now?
400 kids have been forcibly removed from their mothers and scattered all over Texas. It came out in court this week that some of the little boys had their bibles (book of Mormon) taken away from them by CPS. The judge ordered those books returned. Apparenly yesterday CPS showed up again at the ranch demanding to take a look over the site again because they heard that some kids might be in there - rumour had it that there were relatives who might have arrived to support their families - so now CPS wants their kids too? Now there is talk of PTS in some of the kids. Texas has spent $10 million dollars so far in saving the kids but nobody has told us who the abusers are yet they saved them from.
I'm all for saving kids but they should have taken the men if they were the problem and then sorted it out. Now you have a bunch of traumatized kids, no charges, no convictions (at least not yet), health problems, welfare costs and most likely years of lawsuits filed against the State which will cost the taxpayers there billions of dollars.
I also still wonder at the comment the sherriff made originally when he went in with guns blazing - he said they worked with an informant inside for 4 years. Why? What purpose? That statement made me think of someone looking for a reason for a raid and not someone who heard something or just came across some allegations that made it necessary to act. Should he not name his informant and wouldn't that be one piece of 'solid' evidence they could convict on? If he was working for 4 years to smash the organization then why couldn't the sect have been stopped from building their compound in the first place?
There is still too much unanswered on every side. sammieswife.
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CaptainSchmideo
Thank you, Sammieswife. As always, said a lot more eloquently than I could. I'm not FOR child abuse, I AM for effective solutions. This, obviously, was not one.