could jw's prove their beliefs without watchtower literature?

by atpeace 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  atpeace

  i was pondering this question today. i thought it might be an interesting tactic to use with my family. if i simply asked that they prove all beliefs by the bible alone.

  growing up - EVERY time discipline or counsel was given - it was based on getting out the bound volumes. not to mention, just study in general.

  it seems to me, so many things could be interepreted in a number of ways. the blatant cousel lately to not examine any outside sources, let alone not reasoning on things for oneself, is very troubling to me.

  thoughts?
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  blkblk13

  I think that most wouldn't be able 2. For 2 reasons. 1 they are basically trained not to. The society demands use of it's bible "supplements" even when doing personal study. Witnesses r also encouraged to keep their reasoning books handy to explain their beliefs, which becomes a crutch 2. Many of Jdubs beliefs are no more than WBTS interpretation and opinions made law. Where in the bible can one point to that references pornea or the practice of women covering their heads if they lead a group in prayer and no man is present or jdubs being required to report field service time, or only allowing the governing body to interpret scripture w/ out consulting the thousands of other annointed who r supposedlu going to serve equally as kings and priests w/ them in heavan or accepting some types of treatments using blood but not others. The list goes on and on.

  There r some die-hard pioneers out there who can probably defend straight from the bible but thats only b/c these doctrines have been drilled into their heads. I think the bigger question is would most witnesses ever have been able to glean these "truths" from bible passages unless they were told by the watchtower what to believe? I dont think most people could have possibly, on their own, come to the conclusions that they now accepts as fact since the society tells them to.
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  Terry

  The Watchtower Society is a group of Mystics.

  They are a priesthood unlike the usual priesthood of gurus, shaman and such.

  Most Mystics are "attuned" to mysterious "energies" "auras" "spirits" and channels which are thought acceptable by the listening audience because of commonly held tribal beliefs or myths.

  The Watchtower Mystics resort to making a kind of Pseudo-Science out of their theology. But, be aware! It is nothing more than a sham cover from the real source of their beliefs: pure imagination.

  Step One consists of disabling confidence in the standard Church interpretations of bible teachings and verses. This is, frankly, easy to do. Most believers don't really study Greek, Hebrew, Latin, etc. Most believers just go along with what everybody else says. The Watchtower proceeds to point out the errors of mistranslation, deceits of scribes, pagan traditions and such. This stops the average church goer dead in their tracks.

  Step Two consists of substituting their own brand of imaginative nonsense IN PLACE OF Christendom's imaginative nonsense. The newly converted JW accepts this because Step One undermined their faith and left them trusting the source of the debunking. (I.e. The Watchtower)

  Step Three consists of sending converts out to "teach" the doctrine, thus, making them OWN it and take a personal interest in avoiding any dissonance disproofs. To accept debunking of their "new found Truth" is to destroy their world view anew.

  The Watchtower does not really support their theology with the Bible. They support their theology with confidence in the Mystical Governing Body (FDS theory) and FEAR that not doing so results in being murdered by God's angels at the ever-imminent Armageddon.
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  OnTheWayOut

  While the vast majority of them cannot explain anything without their WT literature,
  you must be careful. There are always some who can use the Bible and remember
  their WT teachings well enough to dance through the scriptures.

  Of course, most of the ones who can do that are here on JWD, and don't do it any longer.
  Still, some of them can memorize enough from the literature to retain it and teach it
  without the WT Library.

  I will not be surprised to see people here jump on your statement and say they
  cannot "prove" their beliefs with or without the Bible.
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  Octarine Prince

  You can twist it up all kinds of ways.
  
  Some church out West in the USA uses the Scriptures to claim Jesus was gay.
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  Awakened at Gilead

  You can prove that JWs are false using either just the Bible and/or their WT literature. To prove they are true, don't read the Bible too much... it'll confuse you. Stick to the loving provisions from the FDS.

  A@G (of the read my Bible too much so I don't believe the WT anymore class)
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  song19

  I had had some intense discussion with my mom (will post that in its topic of its own). I raised the issue of translation in the NWT regarding the words Theotes and Theiotes in reference to Colossians and Romans. Of course her reply wasn’t till later that day when she said she had an answer for me. I told her I already read the insight books reasoning on it and that I already explained the flaw in that reasoning. Going nowhere fast.
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  Mysterious

  Does that count the sticky notes and marginal notations they have in their study bibles?
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  sspo

  Very few can.

  I've seen the majority of witnesses, especially those that were born into the religion were the least knowledgeable in proving

  their beleif with the bible.

  I've been at many doors with elders and they could not turn to any scriptures at all as we were talking about the Trinity or any other doctrines.

  Yes they need the help from the literature

  It seems pioneers do a much better job than most in the congrgation.
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  nameless_one

  It depends on whose definition of "prove" you mean. I have engaged in many maddening discussions asking my JW to do just that, only from the bible, and all I've learned really is that one person's proof is another person's nonsense. From a standpoint of objectivity and reason, no of course they can't prove it from the bible. The tougher question, in my opinion, is can one prove to a JW that their "proof" isn't proof at all?
  
  As a simplistic example, I have been told with absolute certainty and conviction that the two "birthday bits" in the bible are irrefutable "proof" that it is wrong to celebrate birthdays. How do you argue with that mindset? How do you "prove" that that's not "proof" at all? You can take the literature off the table, but it's still in the brain, and because of that I've never once been able to have a reasonable discussion based on a mutual definition of "proof." One thing I've learned from JWs, is that you really can make the bible mean anything you want it to mean.