could jw's prove their beliefs without watchtower literature? (page 2)

WTWizard

If they had to rely solely on the Bible itself and not the washtowel littera-trash, their beliefs would be trashed. Of course, if they remember the context that the washtowels were in, they could use that as their bias in reading the Bible and "prove" the teachings. This is easiest using the New World Translation.

Mr Ben

If the JW's beliefs were based on the Wholly Babble and not the Washtowel's teachings, then those beliefs would not, could not, change direction 180 degrees with the issue of a new Washtowel magazine. And no, going back to an older teaching is not "new light", e.g. organ transplants, the generation, sodom etc etc

catbert

Get an active JW to explain this:

Isaiah 44:6

6 “This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him,
Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.

Notice Jehovah calls himself the "first and the last", and there is no other god but him.

JW's version of John 1:1
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

JW's teach that Jesus was a god, but Isaiah 44:6 says there is no other god but Jehovah.

Revelation 2:8

8 “And to the angel of the congregation in Smyr´na write: These are the things that he says,
‘the First and the Last,’ who became dead and came to life [again],

This is Jesus talking, since he he was dead and came back to life. Notice Jesus calls himself the
fist and the last. Jehovah also calls himself the "first and the last". I imagine JW's teach they are
"first and last" in different ways, but when I was a JW, the comparison of these three scriptures bothered me.

logic&reason

Try to nail down a hardcore JW on anything, and once they are sufficiently in the corner, with no way out, they get defensive.

They can use the literature to a point, but even that leaves them out on a limb if you keep drilling down to facts.

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard "You are just toiling over words" at the end of a bible discussion.

JCanon

As someone stated, very few can. But some can. Many elders and pioneers. That is, they understand the topics and can support the doctrinal position based upon the scriptures used in the original discussion. But that's rare.

What is interesting, though, is that even for those who might be able to use scriptures entirely to express a WTS doctrine, if they are faced with a Biblical reference that contradicts something in the Watchtower, I've found most have a complete inability to recognize the error by the Society. They just irrationally refuse to believe what might be logically concluded from the Bible.

Case in point Passover. For all the years it has been celebrated and the account of Exodus read, JWs do not realize that if the Jews left the same night they ate passover and that was the day they made into a special sabbath day, then Jesus must have been arrested on a sabbath day. Fact is, the passover is eaten on the 1st day of unfermented cakes, which is a sabbath day. Passover is eaten within 24 hours of when they left Egypt and that means passover is eaten on a sabbath day. Now that is not hard to understand, but it's next to impossible to convince a witness that's the case because (1) they didn't read it in the Watchtower, and (2) that's not what the WTS teaches and they don't trust their own minds.

Finally, it doesn't matter if you actually prove something is wrong in the Bible because their whole life is wrapped up in having found the "true religion" and they are afraid to leave or challenge whom they perceive is God's appointed messenger.

Some XJWs who challenge WTS doctrines know WTS doctrines in and out and can explain them scripturally without use of the WTS publications as well. But they are few and far between as well.

The other problem is that sometimes witnesses will think perfectly clearly on a topic and offer a solution to a question but without knowing they are contradicting the WTS position!! So that's another interesting pitfall. Thus when you challenge a witness, invariably it doesn't work unless that person is an elder or pioneer or has been in the truth for a long time because they don't really know what is taught.

This is what I discovered while I was in Hawaii and the local brothers didn't know I was an X-witness or disfellowshipped. Just as a game I pretended to ask an honest Bible question to the witnesses when they came to the door. I pretended I wanted to know how is it that Jesus' trial was at noon but it gets dark at noon at the same time. Problem is, the brother hadn't noticed the discrepancy before, but it didn't take him long to figure out the trial must have been on a different day than when it became dark, obviously, the day before! Well, he was right. He offered that explanation. But had no idea that is NOT what the WTS was teaching! He was clueless the WTS requires Jesus to die on Nisan 14th the same day as he is arrested!

So that's the other catch-22. Lots of them don't know what the WTS teaches on a lot of issues. They might easily be persuaded to follow the Bible on some topic if they don't cross-check the WTS position. But once they do, they have to contradict their own instincts. So they are capable of reasoning and thinking on their own, but there is such an obligation to see it exactly as the WTS does that they second guess themselves. So sometimes, you have to actually show the witnesses themselves what their own organization teaches, because they have no idea. Thus target witnesses are the elders and pioneers, those engaged in TEACHING others, since they have to understand these things well. But cornering an elder is difficult since they can sniff out an apostate ten blocks away.

JC

OBVES

It is easy as ligth of a day on a sunny day.

Once the Bible is proved it is for our times which is the first step then we reach to Mathew 24.45-46 about the faithful servant that feeds his flock. There must be a flock that listens to the servant and if the Jehovah's Witnesses have organization they are in and agreed to be in they must feed on the faithful sevant who must be the remnant of the class of 144000 and they have in their ranks those who claim to be from that remnant.

If they believe there is no literal hell they should easy find the verses in the Bible to prove what they had been fed in by the remant that studies the Bible and base its views on the Bible and let others in the organization to know what they learnt.The Watchtower that is a ruling organ and has memebrs from that class of 144000 are teaching what they can prove from the Bible so the other Jehovah's Witnesses should do the same .

OBVES

This is a special question to anyone who thinks the Watchtower is useless to Jehovah's Witnesses .

Can you prove from the Bible your beliefs ?

OBVES

If you one of the reasons to leave the organization was the doctrine on Christ as a God you made a horrible error ! And how come you were a Jehovah's Witnesses not knowing this that the name gods is ascribed to great people in Israel- Psalm 82.6 .

If Christ is the First Son of God so he must bear the title of God .

We read this word in the context it appears.

To see a difference YAHWEH is GOD but Jesus as God.

There is only one GOD .

There is only one SAVIOR .But read Obadiah 1.21 there are saviors mentioned there !

We have to agree the apparent contradictory words as there cannot be contradictions in the Bible.