The Presumption of Divine Appointment!

by Confession 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Terry

I've noted before that JWs don't usually shun a believer who was never baptized. They just concluded that this person "fell away." They just don't know any better. But for someone who DOES get baptized? Another story entirely. It can't simply be that you no longer recognize it's The Truth. They take the position that you must know it's the Truth, but you are apparently just wanting to follow some wicked, empty path.
They simply cannot, for one moment, admit the possibility that someone else could conclude their religion is not "divinely appointed." Satan has just "blinded the minds" of these ones. And so they follow through with this charade, speaking as if everyone knows this and just doesn't want to admit it.
They clearly take your "virginity" the first time they expose Christianity for false doctrines! You are royally screwed big time.
It creates the impression of what is simply a fallacious False Dillemma. A choice between: 1.The Truth and 2.False Religion.
Nothing could be farther from the (real) truth.
Exposing christendom's reliance on false doctrine, pagan origins, wrong interpretations is a mask for an even deeper problem:
everything actually depends on the Bible itself being free from manipulation!
I'm ashamed to say it took me years, and years and years to realize the Bible for what it is.
What God allowed to happen to documents which represent the "Holy Sciptures" is a strong indicator of how God really feels abou it. God allowed those manuscripts to turn to garbage!
The Bibles we have today are the obsessive and compulsive dumpster divings of wrong-headed and misled fanatics.
Scraps of this, pieces of that, missing parts, copies of copies of copies of reworked according to agendas, assembled cut and paste story-boards overlaid with a veneer of ideology and apology.....this is the Frankenstein document we call The Bible.
Anything, any religious ideas, policies, theologies based on a Frankenstein document are certainly going to be fanciful and corrupt!
The presumption of Divine Appointment will always be "backed up" by referring to this and that bogus citation of "scripture". But, there is no substance there.
Why?
God never intended we place a phoney book between us and Him!
After all---what good is a Mediator and the Holy Spirit if we have to sift through the "tea leaves" of gurus and shaman for our interpretations?
myelaine

dear Terry...
"After all---what good is a Mediator and the Holy Spirit if we have to sift through the "tea leaves" of gurus and shaman for our interpretations?"...
well we all KNOW what your're talking about, "in context", when you say Mediator and Holy Spirit. it saves a lot of your time when we already get "the sense" of what you're saying...
love michelle
p.s. Word Association is used by the WBTS...over time they've changed the "meaning" of certain words to fit their doctrines.
Confession

You sound just like Satan with your ideas, telling all the other other angels not to listen to God. You know what is best for all mankind.
My ideas? It is the Watchtower Society that is expressing "ideas," and expecting all others to accept them. At no point have I ever suggested I know "what is best for all mankind."
The Bible plainly says " not to mixing in company with anyone that is a fornicator, Idolater or those commiting adultery. Not even speaking to such ones.
What about those who, in all sincerity, just don't believe the Watchtower Soceity is the sole channel of communication from God to the rest of the planet? What "The Bible plainly says" and 'how the Watchtower explains what it says are two different things. And, if you were to conduct a careful examination into what the Bible says and how it was practiced in the first-century--apart from only what the WTS tells you--you would very definitely be left with room for a different understanding. Are you able to do this?
Now we know you think you know more than God by your comments. We should listen to you and not Gods word.
Nothing I wrote suggests I 'think I know more than God.' What you are actually upset by is the idea that I might think I "know more than" the Watchtower Society. The fact is I've only highlighted their presumptuousness.
...that is why your religions have failed miserably.
Can you see how Watchtower brainwashing has resulted in your lumping everyone outside of your religion into the same bunch? I have no "religions."
...you have even been convinced that it is OK to kill fellow christians in all the wars you fight.
Huh?? More of the same Us vs. Them "lumping."
Again the Bible tells us that it is easy to discern the children of Satan from the children of God. The children of God will love their brothers but the children of Satan will kill their brothers
How is it showing love for human beings to presume they have been appointed by God, and to expect every other human being to listen to them and follow their dictates? How is it love for them to encourage twelve or thirteen year olds to commit themselves, and then brand them as evil enemies of God if, when they come of age, they no longer claim to see that the organization is what it purports to be? How is it love to further threaten their families and entire community of friends to shun them simply because they disagree with the Society's assertion that they are the ONLY ones who should be listened to?
AWAKE&WATCHING

*sticky note*
myelaine

"clouds" WBTS re: Luke 12: 54 Then He also said to the multitudes, “Whenever you see a cloud rising out of the west, immediately you say, ‘A shower is coming’; and so it is. 55 And when you see the south wind blow, you say, ‘There will be hot weather’; and there is. 56 Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth, but how is it you do not discern this time? Zechariah 10: 1 Ask the LORD for rain
In the time of the latter rain. [a]
The LORD will make ***flashing*** clouds;
He will give them showers of rain,
Grass in the field for everyone. Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and ***flashes*** to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. ******************************************************************************************** good "clouds" Hebrews 12: 1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloudof witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, Isaiah 60: 8 “ Who are these who fly like a cloud,
And like doves to their roosts?
9 Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me;
And the ships of Tarshish will come first,
To bring your sons from afar,
Their silver and their gold with them,
To the name of the LORD your God,
And to the Holy One of Israel,
Because He has glorified you. Isaiah 14: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’ +...2 Kings 6: 16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. dark "clouds" Zephaniah 1: 15 That day is a day of wrath,
A day of trouble and distress,
A day of devastation and desolation,
A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness, 2 Peter 2: 17 These are wells without water, clouds [ a ] carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Jude 12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They areclouds without water, carried about [ a ] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots. +...Jeremiah 4: 13 “ Behold, he shall come up like clouds,
And his chariots like a whirlwind.
His horses are swifter than eagles.
Woe to us, for we are plundered!” ******************************************************************************************** Matthew 24: 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ******************************************************************************************** love michelle
Confession

Terry, I'm in agreement with your post on the Bible. So often it seems I'm trying to make points about the WTS that, for the sake of discussion, concedes that the Bible is the inspired word of mankind's Creator. I'm willing to make that concession since, in so doing, it's still quite easy to demonstrate that this organization isn't what it claims to be and that no group is in a position to ask of its followers what they ask.
Personally? I have difficulty getting past certain passages. Like the one in which Judah's daughter-in-law, Tamar, dresses as a prostitute and veils her face. Judah sees her, pays the price and has sex with her. At no point is this ever addressed as being a bad thing. Why? Why really did David and Solomon have thousands of wives and concubines? Please do not pull out that "well in those days after the flood, Jehovah needed to fill the earth." Bite me! Why didn't all of the men have lots of concubines? The kings took all of those women because they could. I don't need to provide an exhaustive list.
But the truth is I have no dispute with someone who chooses to believe in the Bible and Christianity. Do I see how it can adversely affect their powers of reasoning? Yes. But, having experienced what I have, my big dispute is with people who've alllowed a Cerebral Cortex Companion to be installed into the back of their necks, delivering constant indoctrination and anesthetic messages from a legalistic and authoritarian body of men. They've bestowed their minds and their entire lives to this institution, and have been led down the very dark garden path.
I realize that it took me a couple of years, after coming out of the cult, to give myself permission to consider the Bible wasn't what I thought it was. And so, when finding myself in a position to talk to Watchtower adherents (such as will be the case this weekend when I see my parents for the first time in a few years,) I consider it a counterproductive course to take on the Bible. I start with the religion itself and it's ridiculous teachings and assertions, such as the Presumption of Divine Appointment.
darth frosty

Hey Jadon...
[IMG]http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/darthfrosty/apostate3.jpg[/IMG]
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/darthfrosty/apostate3.jpg
restrangled

"Of course, the grandparents have to determine if some necessary family matters require limited contact with the disfellowshiped children. And they might sometimes have the grandchildren visit them. How sad, though, that by their unchristian course the children interfere with the normal pleasure that such grandparents enjoyed!"
This just blows my mind. When my mother decided to shun me in later life, she made the comment that she still expected her grandchildren to come see her as they were not part of the shunning. THE NERVE!.....and in the end, too damn bad!
Her grandchildren were 18 and 20 at the time and made their own announcement. "You shun our mom, ....we shun you!"
Nuff said.
r.
Confession

Hilarious, Darth! Restrangled, how great to know your kids had your back!
Awakened at Gilead

Excellent thread, Confession.
I too am on a similar path, although both you and Terry are miles ahead of me since I have just exited the org.
My path is:
1. Realize that the WTS is not the "truth".
2. Destroy my faith in the WTS by reading material that reveals their fallacies
3. Question whether the Bible is what it the WTS claims...if not is it worthy of confidence
4. Decide whether I want to believe in a god, and who that god might be...
I have already completed steps 1 and 2 (If you're reading this Mr. Troll Jadon, please note that I am not practicing any of the sins listed in 1Cor5, so why should you insult me... I left because of #1 above).
Now I am in the process of analyzing the Bible to see to what degree I should trust in it as a guide to my life (I am not too impressed by what I have read thus far)
While I still believe in "God", I have no idea who he is, since I no longer believe in the imitation WTS-Jehovah God. My continued belief in God will depend on how much faith I decide to place in the Bible. I also plan on reading information about evolution and atheism, since my only knowledge of evolution comes from the WTS book which is full of misquotes (so I've heard).
I also agree that in talking with JW relatives I don't like to tell tham that I don't necessarily believe in the bible. I try to use scriptures or their pubs to show the fallacies in their beliefs, which is very easy to show, but their mindset protects them, and they start humming - "its the truth its the truth, it really is!" That's all they have really.
A@G

The Presumption of Divine Appointment!

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