To ex-JW's who became real "Christians" (page 5)

burningbridges

I do not believe that fire is the burning sense is real. I believe that hell is the grave, look up Gehena and the terms that were used in the original text and it is easy to see that it was never meant to describe an eternal place of punishment. Death is the end, unless you are rewarded.

trevor

Said one Folks of a surly Tapster tell,
And daub his Visage with the Smoke of Hell;
They talk of some strict Testing of us - Pish!
He's a Good Fellow, and 'twill all be well."

The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

AuldSoul

The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

I knew I liked you for some reason! I have a paperbound, beautifully illustrated copy of that. Published in 1913.

Satanus

As you know, i'm not a christian or a believer in the biblegod. However, i suspect that there is something corresponding to hell/pergatory. I think that it's a self imposed state that some newly passed souls inhabit, temporarily. It's because of their seriously messed up states just before dying, whether because of slavery to addictions, extreme selfishness in using/abusing others, serious depression, etc. They carry those states w them, and create or find similar places over their. They are not permanent, however, as continuous rescue attempts are made higher, more enlightened spirits. My opinion. S

frankiespeakin

Satan,

I've kinda the idea that if you really beleive in it you might go there,,when you pass over,, it would probably effect those who have been raised and indoctrinated with fear of it that would likely go there if they have done things they have been indoctrinated to beleive are sinful and merit the eternal flames.For thier disembodies personalities may experience being caught in a hell of thier own indoctrinated programming. Who knows? It is all speculation anyway.

BurnTheShips

i suspect that there is something corresponding to hell/pergatory. I think that it's a self imposed state that some newly passed souls inhabit, temporarily. It's because of their seriously messed up states just before dying, whether because of slavery to addictions, extreme selfishness in using/abusing others, serious depression, etc. They carry those states w them, and create or find similar places over their. They are not permanent, however, as continuous rescue attempts are made higher, more enlightened spirits. My opinion.

I have a similar feeling.

BTS

Deputy Dog

Nark

It is the place where God is not.
From a theistic standpoint, I could hardly think of a more blasphemous definition.

Can't agree more.

Hell is where God demonstrates perfect justice, without mercy.

‘Tis the
fierceness of his wrath that you are exposed to. We often read of the fury of God; as in Is. 59:18, “According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay fury to his adversaries.” So Is. 66:15, “For behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebukes with flames of fire.” And so in many other places. So we read of God’s fierceness . Rev. 19:15, there we read of “the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of almighty God.” The words are exceeding terrible: if it had only been said, “the wrath of God,” the words would have implied that which is infinitely dreadful: but ‘tis not only said so, but “the fierceness and wrath of God”: the fury of God! the fierceness of Jehovah! Oh how dreadful must that be! Who can utter or conceive what such expressions carry in them! But it is not only said so, but “the fierceness and wrath of almighty God .” As though there would be a very great manifestation of his almighty power, in what the fierceness of his wrath should inflict, as though omnipotence should be as it were enraged, and exerted, as men are wont to exert their strength in the fierceness of their wrath. Oh! then what will be the consequence! What will become of the poor worm that shall suffer it! Whose hands can be strong? and whose heart endure? To what a dreadful, inexpressible, inconceivable depth of misery must the poor creature be sunk, who shall be the subject of this!
Consider this, you that are here present, that yet remain in an unregenerate state. That God will execute the fierceness of his anger, implies that he will inflict wrath without any pity: when God beholds the ineffable extremity of your case, and sees your torment to be so vastly disproportioned to your strength, and sees how your poor soul is crushed and sinks down, as it were into an infinite gloom, he will have no compassion upon you, he will not forbear the executions of his wrath, or in the least lighten his hand; there shall be no moderation or mercy, nor will God then at all stay his rough wind; he will have no regard to your welfare, nor be at all careful lest you should suffer too much, in any other sense than only that you shall not suffer beyond what strict justice requires: nothing shall be withheld, because it’s so hard for you to bear. Ezek. 8:18, “Therefore will I also deal in fury; mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity; and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet I will not hear them.” Now God stands ready to pity you; this is a day of mercy; you may cry now with some encouragement of obtaining mercy: but when once the day of mercy is past, your most lamentable and dolorous cries and shrieks will be in vain; you will be wholly lost and thrown away of God as to any regard to your welfare; God will have no other use to put you to but only to suffer misery; you shall be continued in being to no other end; for you will be a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction; and there will be no other use of this vessel but only to be filled full of wrath: God will be so far from pitying you when you cry to him, that ‘tis said he will only laugh and mock, Prov. 1:25–32.
How awful are those words, Is. 63:3, which are the words of the great God, “I will tread them in mine anger, and will trample them in my fury, and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.” ‘Tis perhaps impossible to conceive of words that carry in them greater manifestations of these three things, viz. contempt, and hatred, and fierceness of indignation. If you cry to God to pity you, he will be so far from pitying you in your doleful case, or showing you the least regard or favor, that instead of that he’ll only tread you under foot: and though he will know that you can’t bear the weight of omnipotence treading upon you, yet he won’t regard that, but he will crush you under his feet without mercy; he’ll crush out your blood, and make it fly, and it shall be sprinkled on his garments, so as to stain all his raiment. He will not only hate you, but he will have you in the utmost contempt; no place shall be though fit for you, but under his feet, to be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
Jonathan Edwards

Narkissos

DD,

Imo "justice without mercy" is just as theologically inconsistent, from a Christian theistic perspective, as the reinterpretations of hell as "God's absence" or "taking human rejection seriously" (à la C.S. Lewis).

The problem, here (again), is the notion of revelation. If God is love he cannot switch love off and yet be God. If God is love any torment is both inflicted and suffered by love (i.e., God).

So hell vanishes in Khayyam's cup -- releasing "God" as well as "us".

Deputy Dog

Nark

Imo "justice without mercy" is just as theologically inconsistent, from a Christian theistic perspective, as the reinterpretations of hell as "God's absence" or "taking human rejection seriously" ( à la C.S. Lewis).

How so, if mercy is rejected when offered? I like how you took my words "justice without mercy" out of the context of hell. Until a final day of judgement, grace and mercy is given to every man that has ever lived. If God is just, He must at some point exercise that justice don't you think?

The problem, here (again), is the notion of revelation. If God is love he cannot switch love off and yet be God. If God is love any torment is both inflicted and suffered by love ( i.e., God).

Is God only "love"? The notion that He has only one attribute or that He must show only one to the exclusion of all the rest would be out of balance. It would make Him less than human. IMO

What would be the value of love, grace or mercy without justice? How would grace exist ,if it could be demanded by the unrighteous?

Narkissos

Is God only "love"?

I'm glad you didn't write the first epistle of John. It might read "God is 50 % love"...

The notion that He has only one attribute or that He must show only one to the exclusion of all the rest would be out of balance. It would make Him less than human.

Hopefully so.

But I admit love is not a "reasonable thing to think" (borrowing from a famous WT mantra).

What would be the value of love, grace or mercy without justice? How would grace exist ,if it could be demanded by the unrighteous?

The very point of "grace" is that it cannot be "demanded," yet it can be granted.

To ex-JW's who became real "Christians"

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