Question about Conscience matter

by Iwonder17 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Iwonder17

  Thank you all so far for your thoughts.

  Just to clear up a couple of things... when I said Liberal, I meant some people will allow some things where others would never allow anything. So I didn't mean that as a political word, I just didn't know the best way to put it.

  Also, I agree with Casper and OnTheWayOut.

  Casper, you're right. And that's what bugs me. If they don't want me to do something, just have the stones to tell me.

  OnTheWayOut, you make a good point as well....and that is basically my life in a nutshell. Me, my wife and kids all do what we should, but IT'S NEVER ENOUGH TO MAKE THEM HAPPY. I have been a MS and Pioneer before and I don't want to right now. But they never stop bugging me to DO MORE DO MORE DO MORE !!!!

  PS: everyone else comment are great too, :o)
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  Casper

  But they never stop bugging me to DO MORE DO MORE DO MORE !!!!

  And they never will. Not until they wear you down and you give in... Or you stand up for yourself and your family.

  Cas
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  stillajwexelder

  Wow - I personally would make just about EVERY decision a conscience matter
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  DNCall

  I would prefer that the is just a rule and you wither follow it or not.

  The law given to Moses was a grand object lesson designed to teach us that we really wouldn't want a rule to "follow it or not." As Paul pointed out to the Galatians, such a code of laws was impossible for humans to follow and amounts to a burden that we can't bear. He also comments that Jesus taught as he did so that law would be inscribed on hearts rather than tablets of stone.

  Paul pointed out to the Ephesians that the role of the "gifts in men" is to bring the congregation to maturity, to the stature of a full-grown man in Christ. Given Jesus' example, Paul was not referring to a full-grown man as someone who needed to have every move legislated.

  In discussing the "more important things" with the Philippians, Paul stressed "full discernment" as being an ability to strive for so as to grow in love as a Christian.

  If you are seeking organizational recognition, then play the game. The rules of the game are clearly set before you. If, on the other hand, you are seeking to be a full grown man in Christ, it is the striving that is pleasing to God, not so much the end result.

  DNCall
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  yknot

  Iwonder17

  ....to JWD !!!!

  For me when I hear "MOC"....it means 2 things.

  1. Yea it is a personal choice but don't get to cozy doing what you wanna do because we make the rules & if you are "spiritually strong" you will agree with US.

  2. Yea we were wrong and it is okay to do 'whatever', however we don't wanna admit officially we were wrong because of lawsuits (( $$$$$$$ )).

  But this has just been my experience.
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  VoidEater

  Welcome to the Board!

  I am a very black and white kind of person

  I think this is to be avoided like the plague. Jesus fulfilled the law, constantly telling us to act out of love rather than trying to fastediously follow a law.

  Cheers!
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  Iwonder17

  good point VoidEater.

  I guess what I have a hard time with is the whole concept of it. I have never heard of such a thing in other religions.
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  WTWizard

  To the contrary, I believe most issues should be "conscience" matters. It is extremely simple to get at the basic root of morals, if only we put aside our religious bias. We must weigh each decision based on one thing: If a volitional action is good for self or society, it is moral. If a volitional action is bad for self or society, it is immoral. Leaving most actions amoral, because they are neither good nor bad for self or society.

  As such, each of us has to decide whether a given action is good or bad (or neutral) for self or society. And very few actions are actually so blatantly bad that they are condemnable. Initiatory force, threat of force, and fraud are the only actions that are this bad because they actually impede others from doing what is good for self and society (and I must add that the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger routinely does this).

  And, no, always taking the liberal course should not impede a person from success. If it does, there is something wrong with the organization.
• 

  funkyderek

  Iwonder17:

  I have always had a problem with Conscience matter's and here is my reasoning. Whenever a Conscience matter issue comes up, they always end with a comment something like "whatever your Conscience allows you to do" and you will answer to god for your actions.

  That kind of makes sense (within the context of belief in a vengeful god). Individuals must do what their conscience tells them is right, regardless of whether it conflicts with someone else's interpretation of the matter. Much better than blind obedience.

  1) If there was a Conscience matter posed to Jesus, what side of the issue would he choose? ( I would assume, the conservitive side )

  Why on earth would you assume that? When did Jesus ever choose the conservative side? He ate with prostitutes and tax collectors, he had a relaxed attitude to the sabbath and he promoted love over slavish obedience to rules. He castigated the conservatives of his day for their numerous hypocritical rules and regulations.

  2) If during your life you were faced with 100 Conscience matter, and you always choose the "liberial" side of the issue, would you be more or less likely to gain entry into paradise?

  Wouldn't that depend on the issue? What's the liberal side of whether Christians should drink coffee? Is talking to relatives who have left your religion the liberal or conservative thing to do? What would Jesus do?

  3) If during your life you were faced with 100 Conscience matter, and you always choose the "liberial" side of the issue, and the elders were aware of this, would you ever be appointed as a MS or elder?

  Quite possibly not. That's not the attitude JWs want to cultivate. "Liberal" in this context seems to mean not having a bug up your ass about every tiny little thing.

  Tell me what you think.... I am a very black and white kind of person and I have a tough time with Conscience matters. I would prefer that the is just a rule and you wither follow it or not.

  Then you'll make a great JW. They have rules for everything. The best way is to take the most conservative view possible on everything; that way you can make other people miserable while appearing superior to them. That way, you'll make elder in no time.

  Of course, if you want to be a moral human being, then you must make decisions for yourself, some of which will involve multiple shades of grey.

  Your choice and one you have to make. Even choosing not to choose is a choice.