What makes someone so sure... (page 6)

logic&reason

Good and Evil don't exist as invisible forces in the universe... they are concepts, and they are relative.

StAnn

If God wanted this boy to be saved because he had a plan for him, why not just whisper to the kid "do not step on the mason jar!" You know that old saying, "an ounce of prevention". God being omnisicent and all, you would just expect him to be a little more efficient! Also, why put the thought in the neigbours head to "take out the trash". Why not put the thought in his head to "go save the bleeding kid outside". God is always so vague and low-key nowadays! Not like those attention grabbing miracles of yester year.

Cog, I'll tell why from my perspective. A few months previous to this event, I had been driving home at night. The car in front of me was hit head on by a drunk/drugged/intoxicated driver. I called 911 and then tried to help. Problem was, the intoxicated man who caused the accident was pinned in his car. The car caught on fire. We tried to pull the man out but couldn't. Finally, as the flames started to spread, we all backed off and watched this man burn alive. It was horrific. He screamed for us to come back until the skin had been burned off his face and he was just a skeleton, hanging out the driver's side window. By the time the fire trucks came, it was too late. This haunted me for months. I second guessed what we should have done to save this man. I knew that I was a trained health care worker and had followed the rules, which preclude getting near a burning car that may explode, even if someone is trapped inside. Regardless, I felt horrible for not being able to help this man. He was pinned, really, we couldn't drag him out. I guess he'd have required a tool that could cut through metal. But I still felt terrible. Anyway, fast forward a few months and the above incident happens. You're trained not to go into an incident blindly, because you don't know what you're getting into and you may put yourself at great risk. When I heard the dad screaming about his son, I decided to go against my training and go try to help, even though I couldn't see the situation until I was in it. Then I had to hold that kid down and keep his femoral artery clamped off for 45 minutes. After this incident, my nightmares about the burning man stopped. I was able to accept that, when I couldn't help, I didn't, but that when I could help, I was a decent enough person to do the right thing. I was able to live with myself a lot better after that. I don't know, maybe the little boy jumped on the Mason jar because I needed some confirmation that I wasn't a horrible person. So, in that respect, the little boy unknowingly suffered to save me. Now, regarding why say "take out the trash" instead of "go save the bleeding kid," here's my thought. I had made the decision to back away from the burning man because it was too dangerous for me. I needed to make a decision, just as quickly, on my own to help this kid. It had to be my decision. I had to say "yes" when I was asked to put myself at risk for someone else, someone I'd never even met, for it to be meaningful for me. That's some of what the experience meant for me. StAnn

cognizant dissident

The subconscience works in mysterious ways.

Yes, but it still makes more sense than God!

Junction-Guy

True Cog, you may not be gods, but you sure are smart alecks.

cognizant dissident

Stann, I'm sorry you witnessed such a horrific incident. I trained in health care too and was shown ground zero emergency footage after 9/11 of people hitting the pavement. Some of the students had to run out of the room crying. I had nightmares for weeks afterwards.

You did what you were trained to do and you can't save everyone. Second guessing yourself and survivor guilt is very common. People in that profession deserve nothing but respect for what they do IMO.

However, I still cannot draw the conclusion that God has anything to do with horrific events just so that other people like yourself can "learn something" from it. This is not logical to me. What did you learn from the first incident? You felt horribly. If the first incident never happened, then you wouldn't have needed the 2nd incident to feel better about yourself.

In your profesion, you are going to see some horrible shit. Some you can save and some you can't. There doesn't have to be some greater meaning in it, although I understand that believing there is is a coping mechanism used by many who deal with severe trauma in their work. It helps them to keep from cracking up.

Respectfully,

Cog

cognizant dissident

I'll grant you that JG

Junction-Guy

Well good, at least we agree on something.

cognizant dissident

StAnn

However, I still cannot draw the conclusion that God has anything to do with horrific events just so that other people like yourself can "learn something" from it.

COG, it's how you look at it. I don't see that God caused that little boy to jump on that jar to help me. I see it as if God said, "Hey, there's a kid over here who needs help. Let's take this accident and do some good with it. There's a chick over on the next block who needs her faith in herself restored. This is the perfect opportunity, let's get her out into her alley somehow so she can become aware of the situation and then follow her heart." So, I see it as God taking lemons and making lemonade. (I know, trite, but it's getting late here!)

StAnn

Oh, COG, I did want to mention, the first incident with the burning man happened because he chose to become intoxicated and then chose to drive. Period. His own choice, his own free will. I never thought God caused it or allowed it to happen for the greater good of anybody. It was the inevitable result of the driver's choices.

It was really sad. This was right before Christmas, just a couple of days. He was estranged from his family, who also had substance abuse issues. They refused to even pick up his remains, so he's buried in pauper's field. Not even a headstone.

What makes someone so sure...

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