I was 17 and moved in with my sister. My brother died. They wore me down over a several month period. I don't think of myself as an adult then. If I had been on my own, the JW's wouldn't have gotten to me the way they did. My sister was very controlling with me. She would still be if I allowed it.
Not Born-in, Not converted as adult. The In-Betweens
by Lady Lee 29 Replies latest jw friends
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compound complex
Lady Lee,
It was rather strange for me.
My mom studied for years with an anointed sister when I was a little boy, then, when I was 13, I had my own study (another town). I went to school, didn't salute the flag (I read about neutrality in Mom's AWAKE!), and caught you-know-what from the school. Horrified, my WWII-decorated dad stopped the study. He must have been totally unaware of the JW stand until I forced it.
Four years later, same house: a super zealous sister and her anointed mother truly won me over and, as I was just then about to head off to college, my parents didn't stop the study, but we sure had lots of fights. I continued to study in college and got baptized at the end of my first year and never went back to school. My entire family followed me into the organization within the next few years.
Irony:
1) I have no regrets about myself: there were many wonderful experiences and JW friends in my 40 years a dub. But my entire family is still in - I feel ambivalent about that.
2) An anointed couple took me under their wing when I was in college. He was a former pilgrim and she had a full time job. Their son was a college professor and they heartily encouraged me to stay in college ...
My biggest mistake was not taking their advice.
By the way, did you notice all the anointed mentioned above (there were many more who helped me)? They were such a part of my life that leaving the WT was difficult because of my feelings for them.
CoCo Quit College
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White Dove
As per the question Lady Lee wondered about, I'm a born-in and began school at six as a dub. That was a whole new experience for me as I now found myself having to explain myself to others. Why no this and that. The only answer I had was, "It's against my religion." That was all I knew, besides the fact that "Santa Claus was a lie." I didn't feel my religion. I didn't understand it. The stands I took in school were meaningless. I wasn't doing it to be faithful. I was doing it to not get a thrashing at home. I did it out of morbid fear. The kids and teachers made fun of me and I didn't understand that. Depression set in soon about the second grade. The abuse from other didn't let up. I told my mom about it and she said to just ignore it, that they do that to people they like. Oh yeah, they hit and kicked me black and blue, called me obscene names, and got me into trouble with the teachers using lies. Sure they liked me.
By my teen years, I knew little more about it but did feel proud of taking a stand for Jehovah. After all, those poor brothers in Malawi suffered terribly. Couldn't I do the same for Jehovah's name? It was so awkward trying to explain things that I didn't understand or agree with. The standard answer sufficed in these cases. By then, I had been labeled and it set in my mind that I was stupid and a freak. I believed it. I was extremely depressed by this time.
I think being teened-in is worse, though, because of going from normal to abnormal overnight. I was conditioned to expect inappropriate behavior from others directed toward me. It must be like an extreme case of culture shock for teened-ins. The problem is, you can't learn about the culture and adapt. You are always a brand new freak.
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parakeet
"what was it really like for you to have these changes forced on you?"
I was 12 when my parents started studying with the dubs; 13 when I and my sibs were forced into it. The bad stuff, of course, was giving up holidays, birthdays, nonJW childhood friends, being a JW kid at school, especially when I had been just an ordinary kid enjoying my ordinary life. The sacrifices I was forced to make were very hard. I remember walking to school humming Christmas carols to myself, which was the only vestige of Christmas I had for a long time.
However, the upside (again, assuming one had no choice about being a JW), is that I did have good memories of earlier times when we were a happier family, a valuable contrast to the JW life. I knew in my heart that my former friends and neighbors weren't Satan's minions. My parents used to like and visit them regularly. Our preJW life was not evil -- I knew that, even as a JW teenager.
I think that that perspective was what ultimately helped me get out as soon as I did, while I was still in my 20s. Those born into the cult never had the innocent enjoyment of holidays and birthdays, and I think many born-ins who leave still have guilt about celebrating holidays. Not me! I celebrated Christmas the same year I left the JWs -- tree, stockings, cookies, presents, big dinner, the works -- not a twinge of guilt, because I remembered the joy of my childhood Christmases.
Those who convert as adults do so by choice, and are the ones I have the most difficulty understanding. They must be emotionally damaged in some way. To presumably have adult reasoning capacities, and still willingly join a cult, is an act beyond my comprehension. From my observation when I was a reluctant young JW, adults who left the JWs usually turned to something else equally extreme.
To conclude, I think the in-betweeners get the worst of it while they're in the cult but the best of it when they get out. -
WTWizard
I'm not surprised that it is difficult to be forced in while you are a teenager or close. The Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger has prepared a few parts about that, telling parents to use their authority as heads of the household to initiate the use of force against the children if they do not want to give up those things of the world.
Though I was suckered in as an adult, I have thought of how it would have been had I been forced in at around the age of 9 or 10. As it was, I developed a phobia of church around age 9 (and it was about religion in general, not about the physical church). Had we been forced in then, it would have been way more stressful than it actually was. Going to church and participating in spreading the cancer all the time would have been totally unbearable.
And there were plenty of memories of Christmases past. Had we been forced in during 1972 or 1973, it would have ruined the character of the whole year. Christmas of 1973 was quite memorable, because we had some babysitter snafus about that time and had to make temporary arrangements. Had we been witlesses then, all it would have been would have been boasting sessions (all the more stressful with my churchophobia) and field circus (adding to it). As it was, I enjoyed the radio I got (that would have been banned because most of the music was "bad") and the strip sled I got.
Later, I would have lost out on field trips in school. One I remember well was the trip to Boston Museum of Science in 1975. Had we been witlesses then, I would certainly have had to skip that and spend the afternoon out in field circus (and with 1975 Fever in high gear, it would have been busy in field circus). Also, I would have lost a position on the team math competition (which I helped us win the championship in 1977-78), a trip to Montreal with the French Club in 1980, and all the college prep in the year I graduated. Not to mention a Chemistry test competition, which I tied for 5th place in the region. Instead, it would have been all boasting sessions, field circus, and more boasting sessions and field circus.
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Mysterious
I wonder if in some way the born-ins had it a bit easier. They had been doing this since they started school.
Very much enjoying this thread but as a born in I think I'll respond to this one. Yes in some ways it was easier because from the get go we couldn't do anything and so after a few grades in the same school kids stopped asking. However, it was every bit as hard any time you move, change schools, get new teachers or new classmates. Also we enjoy the added burden of never having had a 'normal' social life and I suspect from what I have learned of early childhood socialization that some of us will forever be a bit socially damaged as a result.
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dinah
Looks like being a dub was tough on all of us, no matter how old we were when we were forced in. That's the saddest thing. Whether you are born in, or your parents convert when you are a teen, you are still forced into giving up normal life.
I remember a boy I met at a CA. We were probably 14 and his Mom new in the truth. Boy was he pissed!! He didn't want to be there. He played basketball for his high school, and he said he was NOT going to give that up for a religion. Of course, I never got to hang out with him much. Mom took one look at him, and I had to go sit with her. I can remember him asking how I dealt with it. It all seemed normal to me at that age. But this guy saw it as the lunacy it was. He wasn't born into it, and he was fighting it. I'm sure his Mom guilted him about being rebellious.
Somehow it does seem worse if you had all the holidays and suddenly everything is taken away.
It is soooo not fair for a little dub kid to have to face with world at the age of 5 or 6. Other kids and teachers treat you like you are a nutcase.
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dannyboy
My parents started studying when I was 5, became dubs when I turned 6.
I recall birthdays, Christmas, and gatherings with our rather large extended family, all of which were eliminated of course as my parents grew "stronger" in the "truth".
As a child with an overwhelming desire to please his parents (and not to be destroyed like the very scary pictures in the "Paradise Lost" book), I always adhered to my folks' wishes about everything. I recognized my life was different than that of my school "chums", but I guess I just accepted it, not ever thinking I had any other choice or course open to me (I didn't at the time).
The few times when I did rebel over things like Saturday morning field service, or Meetings, or having to give an "answer", I got pretty much "throttled" and made to feel like a very terrible person who merited harsh treatment at the time, and who was surely heading for death at Armageddon. As others in this thread have mentioned, [sarcastically]: What a fine thing to say to an impressionable young child. This was not because I longed for the "good old days", just was being a kid.
My [abusive] father was very very "touchy" about me not "setting a good example" and embarassing him with my actions (usually unintentional), resulting in him being "talked to" by those he was trying to impress (and be recommended for a position [before the elder/MS arrangement of course]. The other result was my getting physically whipped/beaten many times after meetings for various infractions of his rules [failing to raise my hand to answer/ talking too loud after the meeting/ running in the KH/ forgetting my "publications", etc]
Still I managed to accept the brainwashing that Witnesses had "the truth" and that any problems or issues I faced were due to the failings of "men", not of the organization.
I bought that BS until many decades later.
The feeling of a somewhat "wasted life" continue to haunt me to this day. How I wish things had been different.
-----Dan
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blondie
Where does a person fit in that wasn't born in and only one parent was a jw, the mother? That quantity of a non-jw father (still the head per the WTS), gives many children freedom from the controlling of the elders.
Blondie
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dinah
Blondie,
My Dad was an UBM and, yes, it did give me more freedom. Of course everytime you do something fun (normal) you get that guilt-trip SMACKDOWN from Mom. It was easier to just not do anything than deal with the guilt from it. I'm talking about just normal kid stuff---not robbing banks or fornicating.
The parents in the hall always had me marked because my Dad was an UBM, so that meant I couldn't be trusted.