Are we DESTROYING society through a false sense of SELF-ESTEEM

by Terry 84 Replies latest jw friends

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    I spoke not one whit about mathematical constants.

    I simply stated that a race car remains a race car regardless of your position in viewing it (place) or what time it is during the race (time).

    The end of the race is when and where the race car "becomes" a winner or not. Context is everything.

    The flaw in your logic is that of distinctions detached from context lose meaning. Stay with the premise and you'll be fine.

    Even if it loses a tire or catches on fire and can no longer race? Is it still a race car then? If a human runner races a race, and is declared a "winner" and has a wonderful sense of "self-esteem", and then is later stripped of his title because illegal substances were found in is blood, and is declared a "loser" and his self-esteem plummets, what has changed about the essence or nature of the man? The race he ran in those moments in time and space have not changed one iota. His true nature as a man has not changed. Only the external perception of him and the race have changed in the minds of others. Their perception has changed. Reality was not changed at all.

    Much of what is perceived as "winning" and "losing" and identity is not "reality". They are only concepts in the minds of others. If I think you are a "winner" and somone else on this board thinks you are a "loser", are you a winner or a loser? Whose perception is true?

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    Look at the context of my use of "ignorant"

    Educated vs Ignorant

    One does not become educated by organic illness or organic health---does one? Effort is the context. Effort, application, desire and ambition are contrasted with the LACK of same.

    Context is all important.

    If context is all important, you might have included it with your initial argument as opposed to supplying only the phrase "Educated vs ignorant". You assume "effort, application, desire, and ambition" are all synonomous with "educated" and do not need to be clearly stated as your premise. Regardless, this too is faulty logic and here is why:

    One can be educated about certain "facts" without extending any effort, application, desire or ambition whatsoever on their part. Think of a very intelligent child, sitting in school, forced by his parents to be there. He has no desire to or ambition to learn what the teacher is teaching. He puts forth no effort to apply what he has learned. However, his brain absorbs and retains the knowledge the teacher has put forth in spite of his best efforts to day dream. (Works for the WTBTS and the meetings too) The end result can still be that he is educated to the knowledge that the teacher was trying to impart. Do you deny this is possible?

    Another child who is learning impaired, may extend much effort to applying themself and have trouble retaining the knowledge the teacher is trying to impart. Effort has nothing to do with it in their case.

    Is their continued ignorance of certain concepts/knowledge due to lack of effort?

    Also one can be educated by organic illness or organic health. One is "educated" and possesses "knowledge" in the truest sense, that of experiential awareness. One literally "knows" what is the nature of illness or what is the nature of "health" from direct first hand experience in a way that no doctor who simply read of the "facts" of same said illness in a text book could really "know".

  • CoonDawg
    CoonDawg

    Well, on the one hand, I agree with Terry. As Doug Stanhope put it..."Self esteem is over rated. If everyone has great self esteem, where are we gonna go to get lap dances? How is a guy like me gonna get laid?"

    Sure, it's an exaggeration, but it does voice a truth.

    On the other hand, having low self esteem or being beaten down by others in an organized social setting is unhealthy too. Hell, it led to me getting married to my first wife. I had low self esteem and figured since she was fairly "hot" that it was the best I was ever going to have the chance at. As I mentioned elsewhere, I fairly recently came across some photos of myself around that age and realized that I had nothing to be ashamed of as far as my appearance was concerned. Why the hell didn't I see fit to make a better choice?

    Yes, there are winners and losers in life. I think there is a distinction to be made about the difference between coddling our children by shielding them from any unpleasantness (i.e. political correctness) and being cruel or harsh. It seems like in this as well as many other "hot topics" it always comes back to a loss of balance in society. Swinging to either end of the pendulum is a bad thing, but somehow we (society, I mean) can't seem to help ourselves.

  • John Doe
    John Doe

    Does political correctness discourage telling it like it is? Probably. However, I don't think the actual reality of life will ever be suppressed by what is "trendy."

    Can "false" self esteem cause problems? Yup. However, I'm also a firm believer in the self fulfilling prophecy. If we give someone self esteem, perhaps not entirely deserved, they often rise above where they would have if fed discouragement and low expectations. Like most things, there is a healthy balance. If we teach a person to believe in himself and not to be satisfied with poor performance, then we have given him a constructive tool. That is not the same, naturally, as convincing him that poor performance is good performance.

  • fifi40
    fifi40

    Terry

    I get the point of these articles and I agree, praise for your kids needs to be true and sincere........it can though be based on knowing your child has made the best effort they are capable of which may or may not mean they produce the best result in class or something. My nephew is dyslexic, he has additional lessons (out of class) to help him with this, before this was identified he really struggled to keep up with the other kids in class but at 12 he has a fantastic mind when it comes to all things mechanical. He understands how an engine works and he can fix and repair things that would leave the rest of us standing (his dad has spent a lot of time teaching him this stuff). So when does he deserve praise................. when he trys his socks off in a piece of written work for school and gets a grade c or b, compared to the kids with natural ability in this area who breeze a grade a or when he fixes your fan belt on your car?

    I understand what it is you are saying, but I guess I see it from the other side of the fence.............because there are plenty of people with unrecognised, unpraised ability and talent that suffer with low self esteem because they never were praised or encouraged and that to me does not seem right either.

  • 83501nwahs
    83501nwahs

    Not one of your finer posts, Terry. I think in fact this is the very first post I've read of yours that I haven't agreed with wholeheartedly. But I see now that you and I have diverged in a starkly ( and startlingly) different directions. Actually, after reading this post I wouldn't put you and I in the same category philosophically or politically. I seem to have more in common with the religious folk on this issue. A living human is of the exact same value as any other human. I do not buy into the idea that the leader of the free world, for example, is any more valuable than a new born infant born with AIDS in a 3rd world country. Even if by a certain powerful man's death the rest of the whole human race would die and it could be averted by simply killing an innocent, I would just say, "well, I guess we all die." I wouldn't harm an innocent because his value is as exactly as valuable to the overall human experience as anybody else's. And if fate (actually, the playing out of a series of reactions to the question of existence) have it that one die before another, then it should be permitted (if one was a supergod that could control events on earth i mean.) I'm trailing off to sleep now, I;ll continue later...

  • S3RAPH1M
    S3RAPH1M

    I see this in Hip-Hop. Cotton-candy rap booty shaking, tip the stripper loads of money, sell more drugs, kill members of your own community, type of music is held in high esteem, but it's psychologically devastating to the youth who do not have the educational defenses to deal with such a manipulative, loaded encoded message. It's all part of the branding, packaging, and marketing to the mindless consumers to increase the bottom line, at least in the rap music industry. A false sense of Self-Esteem is a magick trick played on us by the modern wizards and shamans of our day. It begins with your parents who were victims of the dictatorial schooling system which trains all to never question the powers that be, so maintain the status quo. Then the young are placed in the same education hating institutions! It's made worse through oppressive government, and religions like the Watchtower.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I must say!

    Weirder and weirder!

    You'd think my topic was really about sending below average non-achievers to the ovens!

    Now, I'm wondering.....can it be reading comprehension? Preconceived notions? Sloppy scanning of posts?

    Or, do I have a false sense of my ability to communicate clearly? The irony would be delicious, of course:)

    LET ME SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT.

    ATTENTION! ATTENTION!

    It isn't necessary to read into my words an absolute interpretation. Why do so?

    If I'm a lousy dancer and somebody tells me I'm a lousy dancer they are not calling into question my right to live. They aren't saying I shouldn't associate with people who can dance superbly. There is no existentialist crisis at all! The reality would be that I'm a lousy dancer and realize it and so do others who are willing to say so.

    Should I be unaware of my dancing ability (as sooooo many people are about their ineptitudes) and actually think I'm pretty darn good----plus + people are unwilling to hurt my feelings by telling me the truth.......IS THAT BENEFICIAL TO ME or NOT?

    Ignorance is bliss--but--it isn't an honest bliss, now is it?

    If I think I'm already good--why would I endeavor to try and IMPROVE?

    That's one-half of what this Topic is really about.

    The other half is this.

    People with organic, physical or mental problems probably can't do things the rest of us find easy to do. Praising their efforts is a wonderful thing. But--telling them that is all we expect (effort) and equating that with actually mastering the deed which cannot be done (because of the infirmity) is simply a confusion at best and outright misrepresentation at worst.

    Now---let's put those two halves together and make a point:

    Political Correctness has its collective heart in the right place (don't needlessly offend those less fortunate) motive-wise.

    However, the damage it does (granting permission from others to view an inability as a King's X accomplishment) is the damage of UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

    Calling a spade a spade is correctly identifying what something is by comparing it against a normative standard.

    If we distort our standard and grant special terminology to bypass what is real and true---what happens? (Calling a spade a club!)

    THIS IS MY PREMISE: What happens when we distort our standards of truth or reality is that we erode consciousness of things.

    In what way? We blur the distinctions between what something IS and what it ISN'T. By doing this (no matter how kind or loving our intentions) we create a false sense of self (approval of others for sub-standard accomplishments) which destroys something valuable.

    What does Political Correctness destroy? The currency of social values (what is acceptable for all rather than what is for a select few.)

    We become---as a group---guility of Counterfeiting our values collectively!

    Once we destroy the bedrock of social values (standards) the slide into chaos, underachievement and fecklessness runs riot.

    THIS IS MY PREMISE.

    No euthanizing somebody because they can't spell cat.

    The foundation of society is the individual. If the individual is incapable of correctly appraising his/her own efforts toward achievement, SOCIETY AS A WHOLE BECOMES DEFICIENT.

    Why?

    Feedback.

    One example and then I'll shut up.

    Once upon a time, after a stage performance, an audience which had been entertained to the point of overwhelming enthusiasm could communicate its approval to the performers by giving a STANDING OVATION. This was the ultimate---the supreme accolade a performer could gauge his/her performance by.

    But now? In Fort Worth--no matter who does what on stage there is a perfunctory "standing ovation" which follows!

    The currency of audience approval and communication has been destroyed as a validation superlative.

    There is not good, better, best.

    This is Political Correctness at work.

  • fifi40
    fifi40

    Ah I get it.................it is a localised thing then

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    You are right. Why didn't you put your last post first? With all the additional rhetoric and verbiage, clarity of purpose was obscured.

    There were too many additional unrelated points in your first post. Because of the variety of people and their/our particular issues of interest,

    they/we responded personally to individual segments of what you were attempting to state. But, then again, Terry....you are the wordmeister.

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