by littleblueuk 50 Replies latest jw experiences
This article might help you understand the concept of God better:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concepts-god/
Hope it helps, but I think your question has to do with the problem of evil, which is a different question than the question of whether the concept of God is coherent.
I have been recently thinking about this very topic. When I learned the truth about the truth, my prayers became more meaningful… I guess thankful for seeing the JWs as they really are. As I read more and more about how badly I was deceived, how my entire life was a lie, how I wasted my youth (still in the anger faze) I began to wonder if God listed to my prayers and if he even answered them. This led me to wonder if he is even there… and if he is, does he really care about us. Does he answer prayers? Because looking back I don’t think any of my prayers were answered. Why would God answer my prayers about trivial things; I am well taken care of with a roof over my head, good health, and food on the table… yet starving children are forced to watch their parents die in front of them if they themselves don’t die first. It makes me sick to my stomach that I prayed about such selfish things all while people were praying for a bite to eat or hope for a parent or child to live. Makes me ill that sisters can pray for a car to use in the field service.
I am a nature freak and love the little things...atoms, molecules, cells, corpuscles.....and the big things........black holes and galaxies......No FREAKIN way this things happend all by themselves!!!! Just no way!..........however.......who that being is...what he is about.....how and if he has or will communicate with us?????............I don't have a flucking clue anymore.....................................oompa
Oompa, I couldn’t have put it better myself. Although I have never explored the evolution theory, I think I have to attribute “life” to a creator. Who he is, I have no clue either. Who’s to say the God in the bible is THE creator. My thought is that IF there is a God… than I don’t think he answers our prayers… if he did, he would be intervening and in turn relieving the suffering around the Globe.
being the evil atheist that I am. I've found it's possible to live a clear-thinking and satisfying life without a belief in a sky-daddy,
Gopher… I think I know why people are atheists now. I am leaning that way myself. I would have never expected to go from one extreme to another in a few short months. I don’t know if I can completely dismiss there being a God since I can’t prove there isn’t one just like I can’t prove there is one. But it doesn’t bother me to think there isn’t one… I am not afraid anymore… I love being FREE!!!!
I am messed up and seriously confused, I know. But the strange thing is I don’t mind not knowing… I feel relaxed about my spiritual journey as opposed to when I was ‘still in’ and in constant fear I would PERISH at Armageddon for these thoughts. I love being free! And if the time ever comes when God brings me before him and asks me to explain myself, I can be honest and tell him how being deceived for so long led me to believe he was never there for me or was never there at all.
… did I just see lightning???
littleblueuk...
I gave my viewpoint just over a year ago on this forum: link here but went ahead and pasted it below (sure beats retyping it)... nothing seems to have changed in my thinking in the intervening year....actually, I have become quite comfortable in my thinking now...
Snakes ()
First of all, this is not a Online "Bible" study...its an online "discussion" because we cannot use the bible to prove or disprove the existence of God. The Bible was written by men not by God. How do you prove that it was "inspired of God" as it says in the Bible. Of course it says that in the bible...what, are the writers going to say anything different? If they want you to believe in a Bible God, you say that the Bible is from God....conflict of interest to me.
What happens when I die? No one has ever come back from heaven/hell/limbo/purgatory/grave/"other side" to tell me or anyone else. As far as I know, I die and become maggot fodder.
The Bible believers quote the scripture about faith..."you just need faith" . BS... The non-believers are not going to use the bible to try to prove/disprove a biblical god.
I am of the mindset that there must be some "entity" out there that caused us to be. Mathematically, we humans, and everything else on earth, are a bit complicated to have been evolved or just appeared..... but that is human math, not "higher entity" math. Maybe we are the equivalent of 2+2 and now they have moved on to Entity Calculus.
Leading to what frankiespeakin said:
if there is one I'm sure he's not as petty as the biblical one(he got tribal written all over him), that wants to be worshipped and praised or else you're toastEXACTLY.
Does said "entity" expect us to worship it (in Borg style or any other religious method?) just because it some how caused our existence? I doubt it. For all we know, the earth and everything on it is nothing more than the equivalent of an entity school child's science project. Maybe we are like the ants in the ant farm, placed here for the amusement of some "higher intelligence" that right this moment are laughing their a**es off at what their "ants" are doing.
Or maybe we have been created and then just left behind, like some forgotten toy as the "entity"'s offspring have matured and moved on.
Maybe there are tens of thousands of Earths out there, but we have been blocked from seeing them so as not to bother or be bothered.
Am I greatful to said "entity" (aka Intelligent Designer) for being here.....I show my gratitude by trying not to screw this planet up anymore than necessary for my existance and respect my fellow humans and other critters (well, not spiders or roaches, no respect there)
What happens if we are all wrong and there really is "Jehovah"? Then do you really think he will kill us because we puny humans could not understand with our limited minds? Why would a "God of mercy" do that? I dont believe in the Jehovah that the Watchtower publishes. I believe in SOMETHING ...but what form that is -- if it is -- is anyone's guess....and guess and speculation is all any of this is. But its been fun mental gymnastics...thanks for that
Peace...
SnakesInTheTower (of the not believing so much Sheep Class)
"He's often referred to as "our loving father." Would any "loving" parent behave this way? If so, they would be prosecuted for child abuse."
littleblueuk,
I totally agree with you. I personally have gotten past the need or belief in the "God" concept, and the example you posted is one of the reasons why.
Reality always asserts itself.
I use that same example on current jws when I engage them in conversation while they are doing "streetwork" here in NYC. They can never respond to that argument. Its as if it is just not included in their "programming", and it just does not compute.
Worf
Mathematically, we humans, and everything else on earth, are a bit complicated to have been evolved or just appeared..... but that is human math, not "higher entity" math.
I used to quote creation book probablity regarding the formation of proteins etc. But I now realise that is not relevant. Pure maths is not necessarily representative. For example the probability of two magnets coming together + - is not the same as coming together ++ because there are forces of attraction involved.
If a lifeforce exists within everything, the formation of life may be highly probable. I find that as plausible an option as that of a God existing, and it then does away with the question of why a loving God has not intervened.
Gopher… I think I know why people are atheists now. I am leaning that way myself. I would have never expected to go from one extreme to another in a few short months. I don’t know if I can completely dismiss there being a God since I can’t prove there isn’t one just like I can’t prove there is one. But it doesn’t bother me to think there isn’t one… I am not afraid anymore… I love being FREE!!!!
I am messed up and seriously confused, I know. But the strange thing is I don’t mind not knowing… I feel relaxed about my spiritual journey
Song19,
Most atheists would agree with you that the existence of a deity (such as has been described or invented by mankind) cannot be conclusively proven or disproven in this lifetime.
It's okay to "not know", in fact it's more honest. The atheist merely takes things one step further and says, based on the preponderance of evidence available, that there isn't enough evidence to be a believer. People have reasons they believe, and I wouldn't say they're all bad. We all want some sense of certainty and purpose. However, choosing a belief isn't necessarily a satisfying answer for everyone.
Thinking of random chance...
Given X number galaxys in the universe... containing Y numbers of stars.
The odds for Earth like planets exists many times over...
If, like God... The universe was infinite...
There could be, by implication an infinite number or Earths...
All by nothing more than random chance.
Could it be a time factor. God went on a vacation and let mankind to take care of the Earth and has not returned.Much like parents go on vacation and have the children take care of the home.Well you know what happens if their are teenagers,they will invit all their friends over and destroy the house.However in the OT God should of been tried for his criminal acts.No one has the right to kill their children just because they are their parents.
B
God regards the fallen human race as his enemy. God makes it clear that he is not the "father" of those that break his laws; and ALL break his laws. To be a child of God, a person must be born again, into HIS family. The evidence around us supports these premises. Of course, bible cults, paganism and atheism are short-term options for folks prior to judgment. They just aren't very wise ones.
Hi LittleBlueUk - I asked the same questions about the time I left and at one point felt that there was no god especially if he lets things like you described go on.
The god of the bible.....Some one told me that one needs to consider the make up of the bible and the reasons those books were put together and so on, along with controlling the masses and such...it made sense to me.
Then I think us as humans have misunderstood the concept of god - we reason it out in human terms and emotions. I almost see god as ball of energy sometimes - what does that energy feel? do? etc. We've got to see the bigger picture, outside of time/space/feelings.
It is humans that have caused their own plight not this god. It's humans desire for more and more, better than this one or that one, that have caused all these problems in the world. We need to accept that. There is enough land, building materials, food, clothes, money, cars for everyone on this planet, but human greed doesn't make it posible and that's got nothing to do with god.
We should stop blaming a god for human failings.
