Christendom will NEVER hit the mark!

by Yadirf 41 Replies latest jw friends

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  joelbear

  Rex vs Yadirf

  film at 11
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  Englishman

  Friday,

  I must be honest with you, but Christendoms answers are a whole lot more believeable than what JW's teach.

  Immortal soul? Could be.

  Paradise Earth? Where did the apostles preach that?

  Maybe Jesus / God are co-eternal?

  Maybe the star was for the 3 wise men?

  See Friday, the trouble with you and JW's is that you are like children who demand to know everything.

  "Tell me tell me tell me tell me............................"

  All will be revealed in good time Dear Boy, patience, patience...

  Englishman.

  Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
• 

  Julie

  Rex vs Yadirf
  film at 11

  My money is on Rex. Say what you will about my love Rex, he at least tries very hard to understand his faith and to explain it as best he can. I think we can award big points for effort and sincerity there. Unlike Yadirf who merely spews what he's been fed by the Borg. Also Rex gets big points for trying to patient and tolerant of other views, I know this for a fact. He and I are polar opposites on some (many) views and yet we have a great relationship and he never tries to force his views down my throat--not in any of our private conversations has he ever once tried this. I often find myself touched by his sincerity and heart-felt words to me.

  I am hard pressed to imagine Yadirf having a civil conversation with anyone outside the Borg who doesn't hold their slanted views.

  Regards,
  Julie
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  mindfield

  Hip hip hurray for rex!!!

  *Ladies and gentlemen... let's get ready to rumblllllleee!*

  well, i don't care if rex wins or not... the important thing is that he wins.

  At least his language is not as filthy, huh, friday? (queer, asshole, amongst others on that famous joelbear bashing post)
• 

  Yadirf

  Englebum

  Paradise Earth? Where did the apostles preach that?

  It’s really no surprise to me that this perplexes you, and others here at JW.com as well. You cut yourselves off from association with the very ones that have that answer ... so, really, why do you imagine that I should feel obliged to stoop so as to come to your rescue? But, because I have come to know you somewhat, and there is a side to you that I have come to admire, and because you did take up for me once at a time when so many of the others wanted me banned from this forum -- I'm going to see if I can help you with this question. Not that I think that it will do you and good, or that you’ll even buy my explanation. [8>] But you referred to me as a “loveable asshole” once, and there are far worse things that you COULD have labeled me, but didn’t. So, I am flattered that you have at least a smidgin of compassion for me. Now if you think that I’m being funny, I am a little but I’m equally serious.

  So what you're asking is, If God's original purpose for the earth STILL stands then why didn't the apostles make a big deal out of it? Actually, Mike, the answer is only as far away as your Bible. As to which version used it makes no difference whatsoever.

  The fact of the matter is that this …… Whoops, I’m being paged …….. I’ll have to conclude with this later.

  Just kidding. Ha!

  Back to being serious now.

  Do you think for a second, Mike, that the apostles were illiterate with regards to the Hebrew Scriptures? Of course you know that they weren’t. And so everything that they taught was compatible with that part of the Bible. What part of the Bible might I be referring to, as one example? Well, lets reflect on the 7th Chapter of Daniel … shall we? Remember that in terms of the symbolism’s used there, the sequence of governments that were to rule the earth picked up with Babylon and concluded with a final horn, or government that is (which some think of as the 11th horn). Now what was to happen to the rulership which that final government (horn) exercised once it was taken away (vs. 26)? It was to pass into whose hands? You likely recall that according to verse 27 the rule of earth, which the 4 beasts mentioned in that chapter had enjoyed, would at that point in time pass into the hands of those whom are called “holy ones”. By referencing verse 13 it is seen that these ones will rule in association with Jesus. And so the earth, which up until that time had been under the jurisdiction of manmade governments, would thereafter be ruled over by Jesus and his “holy ones”. Hence, a paradise earth comes to mind.

  So you see the point that I’m making, don’t you? At that point in time, the earth will experience a new administration, and of course all the apostles knew that THEY themselves were the foremost of the “holy ones” referred to there. So, Paul and the others knew quite well that the earth was destined to be restored to both a physical and spiritual paradise. They would’ve never imagined that anyone would think otherwise. It was only natural to consider that God would finally succeed in the realization of what he made the earth for, and placed Adam on it for. And so the reason that we hear Paul speaking so very, very much about his going to heaven is because, since Jesus’ death, the primary emphasis has been on gathering the “holy ones” … by far the most important thing since Christ, because without them having been found/collected there can be no administration to rule over the earth. So this explains your question. In my opinion it does at least. In other words Paul and the others went about their ministry in such a way that it was taken for granted that the earth naturally remained in God’s purpose. Afterall, what possible reason could there be for anyone to have imagined otherwise. That would have been ridiculous. The gathering of the “holy ones” became the thing of most importance after the Christian era began, as that had to do with those who were to rule over the earth in the new system of things after man’s rule was replaced with Christ’s kingdom and his “holy ones”. Because Paul himself was one of that number it was only natural that his words concentrated so much on the heavenly kingdom. The 15th chapter of 1Corrinthians, for example, deals exclusively with those who have the hope of becoming rulers with Jesus … the heavenly class.

  Although the focus of attention in the Greek writings are primarily upon the class that will rule with Christ Jesus, it’s not as if they never directly say anything at all about the paradise earth … because it is indeed alluded to. Take for example the expressions of Jesus himself. At Matthew 6:10 the words of the Lord’s prayer are thus: “Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place as in heaven, also upon EARTH.” In line with that of course are the comforting words which prove to be the answer to Jesus’ prayer, “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them….” (Revelation 21:3) It’s to be noted that rather than man going to heaven to be with God, God himself is said to tabernacle with mankind. Of course, we all know that since God can’t dwell on the earth that such language isn’t to be taken literal. Yet God will be "with" mankind in the sense that he will see to it that his “will” according to Jesus' prayer will be accomplished. And of course it’s his "will" that every tear from the eyes of mankind be dried up and that pain & death be no more. With that having been accomplished our earth will be as if made “new”. With Satan and all the other incorrigible angels that had followed him having been removed from the angelic "heaven", then it will be as if their was a “new” angelic heaven too. Hence the "new heaven and a new earth" which both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures speak of.

  So, did I share anything at all with you that you didn’t already know? In either case, is it that you just don’t agree with it? If your answer to the latter is in the negative … then go take a hike, Mike!

  Yadirf

  Daniel 11:35 ... a prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
• 

  Yadirf

  Mindfield

  At least his language is not as filthy, huh, friday? (queer, asshole, amongst others on that famous joelbear bashing post)

  Why not dispense with the lies, Mindfield? Nowhere on the thread that you refer to will you ever find me calling Joelbear an "asshole" as you've just swore to. Yes, that was a pretty rough thread ... but there's no sense in people like you coming around months after the fact and making false claims, such as you just have. The least you can do if you insist on resurrecting history is to get your facts straight. People like you are undoubtedly the reason why such an expression as "moron" had to be coined.

  Now, how about setting matters right ... either by pointing out the place in that thread where I supposedly referred to Joelbear as an asshole ... or admitting that you are a "moron".

  Yadirf

  Daniel 11:35 ... a prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
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  joelbear

  Hmmmm.

  I certainly disagree that Christendom is closer to the truth than JW's.

  The trinity, hogwash.
  Eternal torment, silly.

  No, I would never have believed the goofiness that Christendom puts out. JW's truth does at least make sense on the surface and even after cutting through a couple of layers.

  It requires close examination of their beliefs and also their application of their beliefs on themselves to make it fall apart.

  They have excellent answers to the easy questions. Most churchgoers don't even ask themselves the easy questions. Those who do usually drop out pretty quickly unless they have social ties there.

  The one that gets them all Christians and Witnesses alike is that they are hypocrites, applying scripture where they see fit (usually on the behavior of others) and not on themselves.

  No religion has come up with a logical explanation of god's justice system. Again, witnesses come close, but not close enough to really make logical sense.

  Joel
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  Yadirf

  Joelbear
  

  No religion has come up with a logical explanation of god's justice system. Again, witnesses come close, but not close enough to really make logical sense.

  For example?

  Daniel 11:35 ... a prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
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  joelbear

  Like for instance, answer my question that I posed about the 100s of thousands of christians put to death for their faith in the 1900 years from 33 CE to 1935 CE and why the 144000 was not filled up rather quickly, just 76 a year would have done it. There weren't 76 faithful Christians who were put to death or died faithfully each year from 33 CE to 1935 CE? I think there were like 50,000 partakers in the 1940's, so actually the number of available slots the other 1800 years would have been even smaller than 76.

  I find that hard to swallow. When something doesn't make sense. I don't believe it.

  Joel
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  Yadirf

  Joelbear

  Whoops! Sorry for the delay, I went over to another thread that I had participated in yesterday and momentarily forgot that I had posted to you. I realized I had forgotten only after having additionally visited two links that a poster provided in that thread. So, I’m back.

  Like for instance, answer my question that I posed about the 100s of thousands of christians put to death for their faith in the 1900 years from 33 CE to 1935 CE and why the 144000 was not filled up rather quickly, just 76 a year would have done it. There weren't 76 faithful Christians who were put to death or died faithfully each year from 33 CE to 1935 CE?I think there were like 50,000 partakers in the 1940's, so actually the number of available slots the other 1800 years would have been even smaller than 76.
  I find that hard to swallow. When something doesn't make sense. I don't believe it.

  Personally, I don’t think that there were very many of the “bride” class (the 144K) that were gathered in the days of the apostles. I say that in spite of knowing that the primary emphasis was upon that class. I’m of the opinion that the majority of Christians in the 1st century never qualified to be counted as being among that number. Not to say that such ones were unfaithful, but that the qualifications for being chosen as one that would assume the role of ruling with Jesus in the heavenly kingdom was higher than most of them could reach. Those ones of course would be the “other sheep” of that day. Yet, because they held to the “Christian” belief they too were exposed to the same persecution as was presented in that photo I posted the other day.

  And so you can easily deduct that my understandings in this regard aren’t in full harmony with that of the WTS stating that up until the year 1935 every true Christian had to have been one of the “bride” class. My “signature” at the bottom of my postings help to explain why I can think in such a way as to be at variance with the WTS and at the same time stick with the Organization.

  So, yes, I see very clearly why you have problems with the WTS's explanation that the "other sheep" didn't began to be gathered until the year 1935. Certainly, even as you have demonstrated, there are hangups to that scenario.
  /Yadirf.

  Daniel 11:35 ... a prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.