Regardless of reality,

by John Doe 47 Replies latest jw friends

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  beksbks

  Hobbiton before all hell broke loose.
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  cognizant dissident

  Cognizant, do you feel that a search for truth is futile and not a worthy cause, since truth is "subjective?"

  I don't feel that search for truth is futile. I think that truth exists, but in the moment, in our unfolding experiential awareness. "Truth" cannot be found in the past as the past does not exist anymore. It is no longer real but just a story in our memory or in a book. (We all know how subject to interpretations those are!). Truth cannot be found in the future either, as the future does not exist yet and so is not real. Truth only unfolds in the moment, in present experience, and that is why I say it is subjective. So to answer your question, it is worthy to search for truth now, but it is futile to become attached to our interpretations of "truth" as if they are the only certainty and as if it were some permanent unchanging thing we could hold onto. This leads to entrenchment in our own views, our own egos and, in extrememe cases, to violent fanaticism. To be open to all that life has to offer, we must be open to this deep awareness of life presently unfolding and it's endless opportunities, not caught up in stories. The search for this true understanding of the nature of life is a very noble and worthy cause. In Buddhism, it is called one of the "Four Noble Truths". Cog
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  cognizant dissident

  Actually, the philosophy that life has no meaning other than death is called nihilism.

  I did not intend to give the impression I believed that life has no meaning. I certainly do not ascribe to a nihilistic viewpoint. What I intended to convey is that life has no meaning in and of itself other than what we as humans give to it. Who assigns meanings to things? Is it not we ourselves? Do not our meanings differ from person to person, in other words, subjectivity?

  So there is no one global meaning that is shared by all, there is no absolute "truth" about life that we know for a certainty, other than it will end at some point, death. Humans want there to be a collective consciousness about life so badly, that many are willing to kill any who do not share their meaning of it, their "truth". That is what I find so intriguing, this human need for communality and shared meanings. It is so strong, I believe it has a deep biological base in our survival instincts as a species. Humans who can work co-operatively in community through shared meanings and values have a better chance of survival. This would seem to be born out by how quickly we are willing to kill off others of our species who are different! Fascinating stuff!

  Cog
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  journey-on

  I think today..............

  I would choose Taoism. Here is why: I am very much about balance and I believe the Universe is in perfect harmony for it seeks and finds perfect balance.

  YIN AND YANG

  In Chinese philosophy, the rhythm of life, which pulsates through the universe, is the action of complementary principles Yin and Yang. The T'ai-chi T'u diagram (above) illustrates this principle. The symmetrical disposition of the dark Yin and the light Yang suggests cyclical changes.

  When Yin reaches its climax, it recedes in favour of Yang, then after Yang reaches its climax it recedes in favour of Yin. This is the eternal cycle. The dots inside the white and black halves indicate that within each is the seed of the other. Yin cannot exist without Yang and vice versa.

  The ideal state of things in the physical universe, as well as in the world of humans, is a state of harmony represented by the balance of Yin and Yang in body and mind.

  Yin

  is the quiet, female, intuitive, receiving force that is associated with earth. The earth is the source of life; it provides us with what we need to survive. Yin is associated with the following ideas and things:

  - Night, Dark
  - Rain, Water, Cold
  - Winter, Autumn
  - Odd Numbers
  - The Moon
  - North, West
  - Right, Down
  - Intuition
  - Passive, Static
  - Contraction, Decreasing
  - Conservative, Traditional
  - Valley
  - River
  - Curve
  - Soft
  - Solidifying
  - Psychological (Astral) World
  - Dragon
  - Kidneys, Heart, Liver, Lungs

  Yang

  is the strong, male, creative, giving force that is associated with heaven. The heaven above us is always in motion and brings about change. Yang is associated with the following ideas and things:

  - Day, Light
  - Sunshine, Fire, Heat
  - Summer, Spring
  - Even Numbers
  - The Sun
  - South, East
  - Left, Up
  - Intellect
  - Active, Dynamic
  - Expansion, Increasing
  - Innovative, Reformative
  - Mountain
  - Desert
  - Straight Line
  - Hard
  - Dissolving
  - Physical (Observable) World
  - Tiger
  - Bladder, Intestines, Skin

  The still point of the universe to which we give the crude name - the Tao

  These words of the Tao are to be hung like bells in our hearts and rung by the motions we make as we move through our daily lives.Any other sounds make it difficult to hear the bells.

  The Tao is universal. It is not Chinese. Its is found in the quest of Christian mystics, native Americans, Zen monks, desert holy men, and indeed in every culture and age in the story of the earth. Before this story began and after it ends there is the Tao. It consists of stillness and silence and it will enter into any quiet heart."

  This philosophy speaks to me. The Divine Intelligence is so much more than we can imagine and the part we play individually contributes to the overall balance, imo.

  There is truth and then there is Truth.
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  cognizant dissident

  There is truth and then there is Truth.

  Aaahh! Truth with a capital "T". That is the most dangerous kind!
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  John Doe

  I don't feel that search for truth is futile. I think that truth exists, but in the moment, in our unfolding experiential awareness. "Truth" cannot be found in the past as the past does not exist anymore. It is no longer real but just a story in our memory or in a book. (We all know how subject to interpretations those are!). Truth cannot be found in the future either, as the future does not exist yet and so is not real. Truth only unfolds in the moment, in present experience, and that is why I say it is subjective.

  I think that truth can be found in anything. Our lives are a constant echo of our past, and a sprout of our future. No state exists in isolation--time is fluid.

  Furthermore, I don't think truth changes. What you speak of as changing is not truth, but is our perception of truth. We must differentiate between those two. While we can never have "absolute" truth, absolute truth does exists and is not changeable.

  I do agree that perception is a powerful filter through which we view the world. Take a globe or model of the solar system sometime and invert it to have an poignant illustration of this.
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  journey-on

  Cog, that may have sounded vague.

  Aaahh! Truth with a capital "T". That is the most dangerous kind!

  What I meant is there is truth as in facts and evidence like what is presented in a court of law.

  Then there is Truth which is that which we all seek, but have yet to find with any certainty. And, you are right,

  when we espouse our own belief as the ultimate Truth, we are treading on dangerous spiritual ground. But.....

  the Truth is out there......
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  cognizant dissident

  While we can never have "absolute" truth, absolute truth does exists and is not changeable.

  Where is this absolute truth that you speak of and if it exists, why can we never "have" it?

  In the strictest sense of the word, I guess mathematical facts would be the closest thing to pure "truths" that exist. Even some of those are conceptual and unproven though. I'm not enough of a math genius to belabor the point but I would agree with you in that context, that they are unchangeable and it is our perception, knowledge and understanding of them that unfolds.

  However, I thought we were speaking in the context of human philosophies, which are merely meanings we humans give and hence very subjective. My comments were intended in that context, not the scientific context.
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  cognizant dissident

  But.....

  the Truth is out there......

  We do keep looking for it "out there". Not so sure it is "out there" though. I think much of it is "in here" and we don't notice it because we are too busy looking for it "out there".

  As for the scientific "facts", such as DNA evidence, etc, you will not usually find me trying to dispute those. Now, the conclusions (meanings) we humans try to draw from those 'facts", those are another "story". That is usually always up for debate!

  Cog
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  journey-on

  Cog,

  When I say, "the truth is out there", I mean that there is an absolute truth as to where matter/life began, how it began,

  and by what/whom it began. There are three sides to the debate: matter/life began without intelligent purpose, matter/life began

  with intelligent purpose, and who cares. It really is that simple. And it is probably 33.33% for each.

  I truly believe (and notice, I said...believe) that it is an innate quality that makes humans search for answers.

  Out there/In there............as in the Macrocosm, so in the microcosm.