We're going to run out of fossil fuels soon anyhow, we might as well get our asses in gear now and stop clinging on to the hope that science is wrong.
What Global Warming?
by metatron 51 Replies latest jw friends
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amicus
We're dealing with physics equations that no one has dis-proven, so until someone does, it makes scientific sense to believe that human added greenhouse gasses will warm the earth, and it makes scientific, moral, economic, and national defense sense to try and understand what that warming will do, and mitigate any effects effects which will be negative (which is most of them).
It even goes beyond that. We know humans are remaking the planet into something that we are unfamilier with. Isn't it logical to ask Scientists to try to determine what the short and long term effects of this are? Greenhouse gasses are only part of this complex subject.
The more brilliant minds we have studying this the more we will begin to understand it. Hell, maybe we'll find that the freon we've been dumping into the atmosphere for the last 40-50 years is beneficial. If so, then we'll know we can all start cutting the condensing tubes on our AC's and refridgerators and have us a big ol' freon party. Perhaps clear cut logging is the best thing we could do for the forests, if so...lets find out so we can cut down the remaining 3% old growth Redwood trees left. Hell, I'd love to get my hands on some "heart" redwood. I'll even bring my own chainsaw to the party. One never knows, but it may well be that the toxins we've been dumping into the Oceans are allowing fish to reproduce at rates we never imagined. If so, lets close those Waste Water Treatment Plants down. Who likes those things anyways?
I can understand someone ignoring what's happening today on this planet if they own lots of stock in Exxon, or have hundreds of acres of timber that they want to clearcut...or they have lots of money invested in one of the large Power companies and really don't want to spend the $$ to install scrubbers on their coal fired plants. I can even understand some of the developing nations who are trying to play "catch-up" with the more developed Nations.
What I don't understand are the rest who choose not to acknowledge that mankind is changing the ecosystem in ways that we've never seen before. If we don't acknowledge it how are we even going to begin to understand the ramifications, if any, of those changes?
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Fadeout
I'm no scientist, but I'll throw this out there for others who might have a clue:
If the average temperature of the earth increases, this would lead to less ice, more liquid water, and higher humidity, would it not?
Higher humidity would increase average rainfall, would it not? Increased rainfall would mean fewer and less severe droughts, and greater availability of fresh water, right?
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metatron
It's just frightening when you observe how irrational this energy/warming/environment subject has become.
Biggest example: who cares about solar, tidal, wind or nuclear energy? They all make ELECTRICITY! You can't put them in your car's tank, for God's sake! Do we have an electricity shortage across the country? or gasoline?
Another piece of nonsense: even if electric cars emerge, why would we need more electric generating plants? Won't they be recharged overnight, when capacity is unused anyway?
When you read that global warming might harm the environment, it's often in headlines and prominent. If you want to consider that CO2 and warmth might encourage plant growth, it's usually an obscure study ( that defends common sense).
Perhaps polar bears are suffering - but I fail to see that more warmth necessarily makes life harder for them. Arctic creatures must eat to maintain body temperature, as mammals. If it's not as cold, do they need less food? And does more warmth make it easier for their prey to live also, for the same reason?
There may be entirely reasonable contrary responses to any of the above - but somehow the discussions often are nothing more than assertions, without debate - or worse, tied in with invective, ad hominem attacks or even threats ( see Hansen comments about punishing oil executives)
metatron
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godadist
Biggest example: who cares about solar, tidal, wind or nuclear energy? They all make ELECTRICITY! You can't put them in your car's tank, for God's sake! Do we have an electricity shortage across the country? or gasoline?
That is one of the things that most people don't seem to understand. We generate very, very, little electricity from petroleum. If I recall correctly, only about 1% or so. Petroleum is a transportation fuel, by and large. Well, throw in heating too.
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beksbks
I suppose burning coal is better?
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metatron
Another piece of insanity: The world had synthetic fuel derived from coal, in huge quantities, 60 years ago!!!
Hitler demanded ( and got) coal to petrol conversion plants to fuel the military over half a century ago. Now admittedly, the cost was high - including the cost in human life, as slave labor helped maintain this industry ( as at Auschwitz) but it seems unbelievable that we can't reduce the cost and the pollution after 60 years of research.
Another absurdity: Electric cars are, in fact, practical now! See "Who Killed the Electric Car". Sure, they only had a range of 100 miles or so but that's enough for commuting almost anywhere - and they were starting to build out recharging stations in California before Detroit and the Oil companies killed the whole system.
metatron
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Big Tex
Found on CNN.com:
(CNN) -- The North Pole may be briefly ice-free by September as global warming melts away Arctic sea ice, according to scientists from the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colorado.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/weather/06/27/north.pole.melting/index.html
As I said earlier in the thread, I do think the planet is warming, but to what extent pollution and fossil fuel usage is the culprit I think remains to be seen. Still I've got an open mind.
Chris
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james_woods
Let us assume for a moment that the warming is real, and the problem is every bit as urgent as the Al Gore warmerites want to make it. Further, let us make the leap of faith that every bit of the warming is simply due to the man-made emissions of carbon dioxide.
OK - so what specifically do the alarmists want to do about it?
I do not mean platitudes like "reduce our dependence on foreign oil", "invest in alternate forms of energy", "carbon credit dollars" or the like. I mean an actual and practical plan to dramatically reduce the emissions of carbon dioxide into the air, worldwide.
What specifically do you want to do about it ? -, and please explain how this solution is actually going to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Also please explain how much your plan is going to cost, how you will enforce it in all the countries on earth (not just the evil United States), and how long it will take to reduce the CO2 back to 1955 levels.
This is what I have never heard from the enthusiasts of warming.