Suicides at Bethel (page 3)

Gayle

I know there was one suicide also in October 1973. A young man I didn't know though.

uwishufish

Mid Tn Mid 80s One lives with a self inflicted shotgun blast to the mid section the other went to meet his maker.

I'm not a defender of JWs or the WT Society, but I think something needs to be said to balance out this discussion.

There's something just not right in the story about the Gilead student who was sent by ship to Thailand. Russell Kurzen was a friend of mine. He told me lots of stories over the years, but he never mentioned anything about being removed by Knorr from being a receptionist. No one else ever told me that story either. We heard stories of others being severely disciplined and/or removed by Knorr, but I never heard any such thing about Kurzen, though he did get his share of rolling with the punches that came from the high and mighty at Bethel. He was often the receptionist all the years I was at Brooklyn Bethel from 1957 to 1985. I could be mistaken, and I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I do think something substantial is missing from this story.

As for Wheelock, I can't see why much should be made of his suicide. His death was not hidden from the headquarters staff in Brooklyn or from those of us who were Bethelites in Canada. What we heard is that he was a man severely depressed with a broken heart due to the loss of his wife. I knew his wife, and she was a lovely person. I can understand how he would miss her dearly. Anyone can end up greatly depressed due to lack of nutrition or due to a severe emotional crisis. The WT has never claimed that being a Bethelite guarantees mental or emotional or physical well-being in all circumstances and at all times. When my wife died at Bethel, I thought I was coming close to losing my mind. I was depressed over my loss for years. So I think too much is being made of an incident or two or three out of the thousands upon thousands who have been Bethelites over the past several decades.

There's a lot wrong with the WT Society and JW organization, so why should we feel it's necessary to make a mountain out of a mere molehill like a suicide at Bethel every 10 or 15 years or less often than that? Many communities all over the world with a population much less have as many or more suicides than Bethel. And it's hard for me to understand how anyone can believe such noteworthy happenings are hidden from members of the Bethel "family." When you're at Bethel you know almost everything that's going on. News spreads like wildfire. Sometimes the last ones to find out are those higher up in the hierarchy, and that sometimes frustrates them. For example, I got rebuked by Knorr on one occasion and by George Gangas on another occasion when I told them things I had heard that they couldn't believe were true until later when they heard the same news from others. I'll say it again: I'm not a JW defender, but I don't think we ought to rush into believing rumours about excessive suicides at Bethel and that the Society tries to keep them hushed.

Frank

Shawn10538

I know that at the Farm a few years before I got there, according to my friend Tilden Berger and a few others, some Bethelite jumped off the E Building into the pool area. It could have been a Bethek legend but I don't think Tilden would have just made something up like that. When I got to the farm I heard it repeated and repeated it myself a few times and I was never contradicted, so it could be true.

tartarus

These cases bring tears to my eyes. I'm shocked.

carla

"The WT has never claimed that being a Bethelite guarantees mental or emotional or physical well-being " ---

Didn't the wt claim to be the 'happiest people on earth' for many, many years? Would the happiest people on earth try to escape their happy life by jumping to their deaths or hanging themselves?

A few years ago I remember there were 4 suicides in about a 3 month period on a few ex jw boards (they were 4 different people not simply related 4 different times). That rocked me to the core. They were not Bethel related but rather jw family/shunning I believe. This evil org does set up it's members and ex members to contemplate suicide more than the general population. I know in my state there were two jw boys who decided they would kill themselves rather than take their chances at the Big A, they were guaranteed a chance at resurrection if they were already dead. Who should share in the responsibility of their deaths? The parents who where to lazy, scared, or whatever to do some research before filling their childs heads with such evil nonsense? Or the org & gb members that use thought reform/brainwashing techniques and fear to keep their members in line?

fjtoth

Didn't the wt claim to be the 'happiest people on earth' for many, many years? Would the happiest people on earth try to escape their happy life by jumping to their deaths or hanging themselves?

Carla,

Apparently you've never visited a hospital or nursing home where mentally ill persons are being care for. If you did, you might better understand that some people do things for which they are not responsible. It's a twist to say "happiest people on earth" means absolutely no cases of mental illness, either cases that existed before entering the WT mindset or cases that developed due to deterioration in physical health that ultimately affected the mind. I'm not arguing that JW errors shouldn't be exposed. What I'm appealing for is a little bit of decency and fairness. To find fault with any organization on the basis of a few cases of mental illness, especially by exaggerating those cases, takes away from one's credibility when very real problems with the organization are being exposed. I think this thread is an effort to raise an issue that simply doesn't exist. I don't believe in the least that JWs are the "happiest people in the world." But I would consider it a stretch if I had to prove it by pointing to one or two cases of suicide at Bethel where thousands of people have been living for decades and there is no evidence that the vast majority ever gave thought to killing themselves.

Frank

mouthy

'happiest people on earth' yes right <Come on Frank You are defending the WT in my opinion. I KNOW the girl that jumped overboard is true. I knew the Brother that asked for her to fly at the BRO'& SISTerS EXPENSE. And top floor said NO!

I understand why you defend them,,,, Because you was one of them( bethelites) but I know many that was at Brooklyn too.... that tell a very differant story than you do.

Yes !folks kill themselves in any part of the world in any organiztion, especially when they are mentally depressed. BUT so many become that way after association with the WT....I know many who killed themselves !!Why? because they couldnt keep all the rules the WT hands out.... We ALL sin, & guilt being the evil force it is... & because they have all been judged by the "TOP" dogs feel it is better to kill themselves because they are NOT going to be resurrected per the WT instruction. I believe it is a VERY WICKEd, VERY WICKED,,VERY WICKED repeated for emphasis Organization

Sorry to spar with you again....Mouthy

fjtoth

Mouthy,

Would you twist the apostle Paul's reasoning just because he once was a Pharisee? It seems that you have the view, once a Pharisee always a Pharisee -- and once a Bethelite always a Bethelite. Of course, the same can be said of having been a JW. It's sad to see that that's what you still seem to be in spirit. Too often as JWs, members misconstrue what better informed persons try to tell them. That's exactly what you are doing with what I've written above. Do you also find fault with Barbara and Joe Anderson because they claimed on one of Fearon's conference calls that suicide isn't common at Bethel? And remember, this thread is about suicides at Bethel, not among the rank and file worldwide.

It's kind of sad if you can't see my point and have to accuse me of defending JWs just because I'm appealing for a little sanity and reasonableness. My point is that JWs don't stand condemned just because one or two at Bethel committed suicide over a period of several decades. There are plenty of other reasons to find fault with JWs, but suicides at Bethel isn't one of them, especially if you are ignorant of the circumstances and have no compassion for persons who have poor physical health leading to mental problems. If your position is that so few suicides among thousands is proof that the Society is "VERY WICKED, VERY WICKED, VERY WICKED," then you ought to be condemning other religions too -- simply because some members have killed themselves.

You wrote that you "know many who killed themselves." Can you name ten? Five? Three? Or are you exaggerating things a bit just to prove you're on higher ground than persons who know better?

Frank

mouthy

Frank if it hadnt been so long ago that I was a JW & because I think I am losing my memory. Yes I remember many who killed themselves in Montreal. I just cant remember their names.One was a Bank Manager a wonderful brother ( I will get Betty to remind me of his name) who loaned much money to Bro's & Sis's which he should NOT have done as their collateral was very poor,But because he thought the end was coming in 1975 thought it would be over before they had to pay back .He told me how hard it was for him to say no to the crys of the bro's ...He shot himself in his car.... Of course he could not have a funeral in the KH ,they also passed it around he was shot by the Mafia....His wife told the truth about it.

Then we had a young Bro who had just been attending for a short while , he was out in service a couple of times with his study conducter, Jumped off the Quarry killing himself, they even put the hours he went out in service on the back board , showing his love for JAH....

The sister whom you met ,whos hubby drove his bike into the river killing himself , Left a note ,saying he couldnt do all that the society wanted.

Then the one on JWD ( Larc I believe his name was ) I will try to recall the names & privately e-mail you.

I love Barbara Anderson & believe what she said. BUT look how long she was there before she really found out about what was going on there....

Suicides at Bethel

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