Isn't this proof the GB doesn't believe what it preaches?

nbernat

If the GB really thought they had the exact truth perfect from flaws, shouldn't they be telling their members, "Go look at the Apostate stuff-- you'll see it's all lies! Compare it to the Bible and you'll see it's all lies!" That would completely eliminate apostasy if it were all true, no?

Just like a salesperson isn't going to tell you, "No! Don't go looking at the other store's prices ours are the best, I promise!" shouldn't the GB, if they firmly believe it's the truth, actually be ENCOURAGING people to compare? See all the "lies" the apostates tell?

They encourage it in the beginning to "compare" and rationalize. . .don't they think if they're 100% sure that their members are capable of reasoning to the point where they can weight the evidence in FAVOR of the WTS??

fjtoth

Nbernat,

You make some very good points, but they would bounce off a JW like water off a ducks back. They've already been told that some will use your type of argumentation, but that it's a trick of the devil to draw them away.

This is the reasoning they use:

Jesus preached the truth, but still some doubted, even the apostles at times. (Matthew 28:17) Jesus was the greatest teacher who ever lived. If those taught by him could be persuaded to doubt, so can those who know "the truth" today be persuaded by "apostates."

What they fail to consider is that there is a monumental difference between what Jesus taught and what the WT teaches.

Frank

tartarus

don't they think if they're 100% sure that their members are capable of reasoning to the point where they can weight the evidence in FAVOR of the WTS??

That's why I'm here. Associating with ex-JW's helps me sort it out for myself. Some stories are heart-wrenching and very believable, lots of hurt and pain. Loss of friends, family, faith. Books and movies could be made from these.

I don't take everything WTS says at face value. Yet , I don't take everything said here at face value, either. Some folks here have not just left the Org, but their christian faith altogether as well and will try to undermine yours too. I say let them do it, test your faith. See if your faith stands up.

GB believes what it preaches alright. It just doesn't believe you will after talking to these men and women.

GB says it protects you from harm by discouraging contact with these folks and labels them "apostates". The ex-jw's here thing WTS is a brainwashing cult using it's authority to needlessly control every aspect of your life.

I say figure it out for yourself. If you went out in service and an atheist (Hindu, Moslem, Jew or Buddhist) tested your faith, then coming here is no different than that - having your faith tested sometimes by the comments people make.

The truth is somewhere in the middle

elder-schmelder

I agree with every thing that you just said !!

james_woods

For me, the greatest evidence that the GB doesn't really believe in what is preaches was:

That episode in the Ray Franz book where the GB actually voted a majority on a major issue (draft cards or conscientous objector I think, or maybe having to do with the Malawi party cards).

It was a majority vote, but thanks to a 2/3 majority rule, a minority was able to stubbornly block it.

So logic would say that the governing body put out a teaching that a majority of their members (just not 2/3) disagreed with.

And it was, I believe, a serious issue for the witnesses as a whole. Maybe somebody can remind us exactly what this issue was?

compound complex

James:

I don't have my books with me to verify this, but it may have been the issue of alternative service. I recall RF saying that the Branch Overseers were very concerned about the needless suffering of the draft-age brothers in their respective countries. One of the GB changed his vote and the 2/3 majority in favor of change was lost. I apologize if I'm mixing up the facts of two separate incidents.

Will check this out asap.

CoCo

compound complex

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/126156/14.ashx

MOTION

That where the superior authorities in any land, acting through whatever constituted agency they use, order a brother to perform some form of work (whether because of his conscientious objection to military service or for other reasons), there will be no congregational action taken against such a brother if he submits to that order, provided always that that the work he is ordered to do is not in violation of direct commands or clear Scriptural principles found in God's Word, including that at Isaiah 2:4. - Matt. 5:41; 22:21; 1 Cor. 13:1 7; 1 Pet. 2:17; Titus 3:1; Acts 5:29.
We will continue to exhort our brothers to guard against becoming a part of the world and that in whatever circumstances they find themselves they must keep God's kingdom foremost, never forgetting that they are slaves of God and Christ. Thus they should seek to avail themselves of any provision that allows them the greatest freedom to use time, strength and funds for that Kingdom. - John 15:17-19; Acts 25:9-11; 1 Cor. 7:21, 23.

IP: ci5t8mAe7FxW0qq8

A two-thirds majority had voted in favor of the motion - but the two-thirds majority did not last long. During a momentary break in the session, a member remarked that there evidently was going to be a change in the vote. He quoted President Franz (who was among those not favoring any change) as saying, "It isn't over yet; Barry has had second thoughts." Lloyd Barry had been among the eleven voting in favor of the motion. Why the change? Since the decision could make the difference between men going to prison or not going to prison, I think it is enlightening to realize just what sort of things can happen in a religious governing body holding power to affect the lives of thousands of persons.
You will note that in the cited texts at the end of the first paragraph of the motion the citation "1 Cor. 13:1-7" appears. I had meant to put "Rom. 13:1-7" but, perhaps because of familiarity with Paul's well-known description of love in First Corinthians chapter thirteen, I mistakenly wrote it down as I did. Someone called the matter to my attention during the intermission and the Body was informed of the need to correct this one reference.

When we reconvened, however, Lloyd Barry stated that he would not vote in favor of the motion with Romans chapter thirteen listed in the citations. Given the opportunity to speak, I suggested to Lloyd that we could simply eliminate the reference completely or remove ALL the cited texts if need be to make the motion acceptable for him. Without explaining the basis for his objection, he said he would still not vote for the motion and that he was withdrawing his previous vote. Other members endeavored to find some conciliatory adjustment but were unsuccessful. Though no provision had existed for withdrawal of one's vote after a motion had passed, we acceded to Barry's action. The two-thirds majority was gone. After further discussion, when another vote was taken it read: Nine in favor, five against, one abstention. [Lloyd Barry had left on some business matter and so was not present for this vote made necessary by his withdrawal of his previous vote. The five voting against change were Carey Barber, Fred Franz, Milton Henschel, William Jackson and Karl Klein. Ted Jaracz abstained. See also CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, page 102, footnote 7.] Though still a definite majority it was no lomger a TWO-THIRDS majority. Though only a MINORITY of the Governing Body favored the continuance of the existing policy and the sanctions it applied toward any who accepted alternative service (unless sentenced thereto), that policy remained in effect. Year after year, hundreds of men, submitting to that policy although neither understanding it nor being convinced of its rightness, would continue to be arrested, tried, and imprisioned - because one individual on a religious council changed his mind. Witness men could exercise their conscientious choice of accepting alternative service only at the cost of being cut off from the congregations of which they were

Finally-Free

If the GB really thought they had the exact truth perfect from flaws, shouldn't they be telling their members, "Go look at the Apostate stuff-- you'll see it's all lies!

Real "truth" should be able to withstand a critical examination.

W

james_woods

Thanks, Co Co. That was what I had remembered.

That is a pretty incredible historical statement about the so-called godly inspired governing body and it's spirit directed actions.

They were fighting amoung themselves like the Democrats and Republicans in Congress.

And note that it was not over some pork-barrel bridge bill...this was the very lives of thousands of young witness men (of my age group, BTW) - and it is pretty obvious that "god's holy spirit" had nothing to do with it.

And it is proof positive (by an actualy eye-witness) that they do not believe what they preach.

BTW, the Malawi thing is also mentioned in the book, but of course it had been long over with by the time the GB came into being.

chrisjoel

Tartarus: Some folks here have not just left the Org, but their christian faith altogether as well and will try to undermine yours too

Thats prolly true. But in "our" defense I would humbly say tha it is for the same reason that I left JWs. Reasoning things out on your own. Drawing your own conclusions when reading the Bible from a purely "observers perspective." Taking in to consideration what scientists say about the universe, what archeologists say about the Bible lands, what evolutionists say about humans, but most important what "theologians" for lack of a better word, have said about the Bible itself, had eventually drowned out the Bible and with that "faith". The only alternative I am left with is a sort of agnosticism where I take in information and draw my own conclusions. I applaud you for keeping your faith because you have found and derive something from it. At the same time however you have to acquiese that the Bible itself is not needed for your faith. Being filled with so many inconsistencies that challenge a person you strong faith is strong despite the Bible we all have come to know oh so well.

Therefore when some "try to undermine yours too" keep the faith!!!

Isn't this proof the GB doesn't believe what it preaches?

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