Welp- Talked to an elder

megawatt

Spoke to an elder and mentioned I had some concerns that need addressing. He asked if it's about the organization and I answered with a simple YES. It's something I don't want to do, but for some reason the better half thinks it's necessary, as if I need a different perspective on my research and maybe he'll be able to shed some light on my doubts. Unfortunately, its someone I highly respect, not as elder but as a person. I asked the wife on how it's going to change anything regarding all the flip flops, changed dates and meanings, by talking to anyone who's a nice guy? Nice guy or a good friend doesn't make the source credible, IT'S A GENETIC FALLACY. "Lack of love in your heart", or "in time you'll understand" are phrases that simply won't work as an answer. I almost have my ducks in a row regarding the info that I'm going to be presenting, but I definitely need polishing up, so I will be posting up some specific questions in the coming days, especially about the NEW LIGHT term and how it's applied...

Well, there goes the SLOW FADE out the window.

Honesty

They always know it's "about the organization" anytime a JW has some concerns that need addressing.

TheListener

Good luck Megawatt.

My wife wanted me to write the GB and talk with the local elders too.

I told her that there wasn't any information they could share with me that wasn't already in print - and we have access to everything in print.

She accepted my argument and dropped the subject. I think she decided it was better that I fade and be left alone than get disfellowshipped and become an activist.

Of course our carefully non-verbal agreement to this affect could topple at any time.

drew sagan

Holy dejavu! This is exactly what happened to me!

After sharing many doubts about the organization with my wife she eventually pushed me to speak with a local Elder. I told her over and over again that this would just open up Pandora's box. She did not believe me.

I later found out that she basically saw my doubts as no big deal, and thought I was blowing the entire thing out of proportion. She believed that the Elder would come over, tell me that what I was thinking was no big deal, and that he would suggest I simply take it slow and work through my doubts.

But that did not happen. Instead he was very defensive, and eventually during the conversation told me "do you want to leave the organization? because if what you're saying is true this amounts to apostasy"

My wife happened to walk through the room when this comment was made. She was in shock. The meeting went on for a few hours, which really surprised her. She could not believe how defensive and scared this Elder acted towards the basic points I brought up.

So while this meeting was something that I felt was stepping right into the fire, the Elders reaction shocked my wife into questioning the organization. Over the next week or so I was able to share with her information about Ray Franz and Crisis of Conscience. Within a week she was reading the book.

So you never really know.

Here is the post I made right after the meeting:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/114180/1.ashxv

TheListener

Drew,

Talk about an all or nothing gamble! Wow.

Glad it worked out though.

drew sagan

Just wanted to add, it might be good to go over with your wife what you will be discussing with this Elder.

Two things I showed my wife before talking with the Elder was Luke 21:8, a very basic point that is discussed in the topic I linked to above. I also showed her the cover of The Finished Ministry in which there was a picture of the egyptian sun god on the cover.

One thing I stressed over and over was that the Watchtowers history does hold relevance. Because the organization claims that semi-miraculous/divine events occurred throughout their history as a religion, their record is much more relevant than they lead on. This was a point she later described as very important to her.

Talking with her and making her see that your questions and ideas are not unreasonable will help put her on your side if the Elder does get defensive and aggressive.

dawg

go and get them Mega... Don't let them slide, and if they ask you about apostasy, then tell them you've said nothing about your commitment to Christ.

jwfacts

I hope it goes well, but expect to be frustrated and disappointed. It is almost impossible to "win" with a JW, because as soon as they start to get stumped on an issue they change topics, or you literally see their eyes glaze over as they start to recite trained but irrational responses.

A couple of articles that may help are http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/holyspirit.htm and http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/light.htm The Watchtower specifically says it is directed by holy spirit, proved to by untrue by errors and flip flops. The excuse is always that the light gets brighter, but a flip flop or specific wrong statement (such as the world will end 1914) is can not be excused as true but incomplete. The JW fall back is always "but the apostles had wrong expectations", however this is a dangerous track for a JW. Ask, "so how much of what the Apostles wrote in the Bible is wrong then?" - Nothing - "So please explain again why Jehovah directed the Apostles to write an infallible Bible, but is no longer accurately presenting information through his organization today?"

megawatt

^ Or they'll use a AD HOMINEM, by attacking me deliberately dodging question, which is my biggest fear out of this mess. Not that I can't handle myself when dealing with that tactic, but it'll put me place where no ones amicable, and loosing all respect for someone I held in high regard despite differences.

And couldn't agree more that no one needs to submit themselves to this interogation, becuase all that one needs as far as insight is available online/public regarding the WTBS publications, which is their Achilles' heel...

TheListener

Sorry if I missed it Megawatt but what are your specific issues with the WTS?

Welp- Talked to an elder

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