Welp- Talked to an elder

by megawatt 20 Replies latest jw experiences

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan
    ^ Or they'll use a AD HOMINEM, by attacking me deliberately dodging question, which is my biggest fear out of this mess. Not that I can't handle myself when dealing with that tactic, but it'll put me place where no ones amicable, and loosing all respect for someone I held in high regard despite differences.

    And couldn't agree more that no one needs to submit themselves to this interogation, becuase all that one needs as far as insight is available online/public regarding the WTBS publications, which is their Achilles' heel...

    You are interested in a slow fade. Believe me when I say that this meeting has many different possibilities. You should however, not be concerned with their 'attack' on you. My first meeting with the Elder as I described was not a boxing match. Most Elders have never really dealt with the issues of people who no longer believe WTS teachings (i.e. apostates). You must remember this going into the discussion. Most likely he will view your doubts with surprise and then slowly begin to tell you the Watchtowers position on things.

    That first conversation I had contained a lot of phrases such as "i had no idea", "you should have told me sooner", "the brothers will think this is apostasy", "i wasn't prepared to talk to you about this, your putting a lot on me right now", ect.

    I would imagine this is how most Elders (who typically live in an intellectual bubble) will react, especially if they come alone. Don't think you are going into battle, especially if your desire is to fade. You already know you will prove very little to this person. Rather I would focus on showing your wife how reasonable you are willing to be, and then have this conversation. More than likely this Elder will want to follow up by brining another Elder. This is when the real pressure will begin. Make sure to get your wife onto your side before it begins. You don't have to convince her that the WTS is not the truth. Instead you should focus on how rigid they are and how little they accept any sort of intellectual diversity.

    Also, stick to a few certain issues, do not let him dance around. I would stick with the idea that 'i'm having trouble believing that the stories about the divine origins of the society are true", or something random like that they are not used to defending. That's how I would do it. I also would not get into arguments about doctrine (such as the trinity, hellfire, ect). You could get around such things by simply saying you have no problem with those things generally, but that you really don't believe they prove that any of the stories that are told about the society (like in the revelation book) are true. I would say something along the lines that i'm simply having trouble seeing it as a divine movement as opposed to one that has simply naturally progressed over time. I know this is all way to much information to give out, but little bits of it here and there may be enough. I'm just trying to give you some possible ideas. One thing I wish I would have done is phrase my doubts in a way that is a lot less threatening.

    I would say away from saying stuff like 'i can't believe that jehovah will kill everybody at armageddon'. Those conversations go nowhere!

  • dogon
    dogon

    They will not deal with it, they never do. The only thing you can do is draw attention you and your doubts.

    I have tried it all over the years and nothing worked. The best I did was have a elder who was a partner in business cover up for me. But only because he did not want the hastle of getting told to keep away from me and cut off his income.

    Once the cat was out of the bag, They ran like cockaroaches in the light. They will try to give you some gobledigoup answer that would not work for a 1st grader, and if you do not accecpt it with out question then you are on a list of marked people.

    The only way to win is not to play, do not deal with them, just live your life and when asked tell them you have marked them and can not associate with them untill they have saw the error of their way, and that you are not being mean but it is out of love that you do this.

  • kzjw
    kzjw

    Mega -- don't forget to provide for the "New Light"(Proverbs 4:18) the JW's 2nd most powerful tool of deception. It is the get outta jail free card for failed prophecy. It is not a "dimmer" switch, but an"on/off" switch(Generation change). In actuallity, Proverbs is a discussion/proverb on the rites of passage from boyhood to manhood btw david & Solomon. Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron does an excellent job of destoying this JW tool.

    Good -- we're all rooting for you!

    kzjw

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    I spoke to 2 elders within a week of my decision that JWs are full of BS...

    I wasn't that tactful, I must admit since I was fuming at having been lied to and spent 16 years of my life in full time service...

    They acted similarly to what Drew Sagan posted... they were surprised taht they were meeting about apostasy, and they insisted on asking me if I still wanted to be a JW.

    Since my answer was that I no longer believed in the WTS, they announced my DA 7 weeks later. However, I had told tham that I was NOT DAing, since I did not want to lose contact with friends and family. I also pointed out that they had no Biblical basis to announce my DA, since 2John9-11 applies to thiose who reject Jesus coming to earth, which I told them I was not rejecting. My beef was with the WTS, not with Jesus.

    The rest is history. But I'm happy I am out of their clutches... I don't care about what JWs or the elders will say anymore...

    A@G

  • undercover
    undercover

    The fade isn't totally out of the question...yet.

    When I started to really fade away and was missing all the meetings and hadn't been in service for months, I sat down with elders on a couple of occasions and asked about 607, the generation teaching, 1975, blood, etc. I even questioned the Society stand on beards, birthdays and voting. By the time I was done, they pretty much knew they had lost me. But they didn't pursue any kind of action against me. I was no longer coming to the hall and I wasn't going around trying to subvert other JWs from their faith.

    They were either too lazy to make anything of it...or they were pretty smart. Why make a fuss about exposing and DFing someone who doesn't even want to be at the hall? Let em leave quietly and as long as they don't cause problems with the rest of the congregation, they'll be forgotten soon enough.

    The one thing that I did when meeting with them was not to make a stand one way or the other. I came across as confused and troubled and eager to hear what they had to say. Deep down I knew they couldn't answer anything, but I gave them the chance and I acted like I really wanted to know what they had to say. It just got frustrating for all of us when I kept questioning everything instead of just accepting their pat answers.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    I will be posting up some specific questions in the coming days

    "In the coming days"!?!? Megawatt, I don't think we can wait that long ! After all, "the end is soooo close"!

    Just a suggestion on an interesting conversation you might try that's worked for me. Show them printouts of the JW pedophile stories and tell them you were confronted by someone (family or work or something) and that they expect an explanation. You're confused and very, very concerned that the bOrg brothers are hiding and not addressing this clear problem going on right now with the Society. If they try to fabricate any explanation start asking, "is that the GB's official explanation, or are you making up excuses without authority"? "What have they printed that can be clearly explained to a householder or other unbeliever?" "Why were we not warned and prepared beforehand about this scandal in Kingdom Halls." I suppose the UN membership could be handled much the same way. As I said, just a suggestion.

    B the X

  • jacethespace
    jacethespace

    My local elder in the end just refused to discuss my doubts with me.Telling me that he would help me back into the "truth" but wouldnt talk about the concerns i was having".

    So thats where i left it !

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    I think Billy the X might be on to something. You know they don't have any answers to your real concerns, so why not throw them a red herring? I'd be curious what they come up with as an authoritative answer re: the pedophile situation.

    StAnn

  • bluesbreaker59
    bluesbreaker59

    Screw it, go out with a blaze of glory, I say give them both barrels at full tilt, maybe get all hopped up on whiskey before the meeting... Why not, they will DF you either way.

  • tartarus
    tartarus

    Tape the conversation and post it on Youtube. Then they can't lie about why you left.

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