I re-entered the Matrix

by digderidoo 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  beksbks

  Dig, there are plenty of books on this subject, websites too. Think about it.

  Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

  1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

  2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

  3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

  4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

  5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

  6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

  7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

  8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

  9. The group/leader is always right.

  10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  The UN scandal i never really had issues with, don't know why. The 607 issue i did, but with that i doubted my own thinking on it. The blood issue, i feel is an adult choice-kids a different matter though. The NWT issues, i feel other critisms can be aimed at any translation, due to the fact that English is not the original writing.

  Many people here don't make doctrine their big concern. It sounds like you want to
  look at it.

  Look at the reasons they hang on to 607 more than the proof. The proof is there in
  Carl Olaf Jonsson's book, THE GENTILE TIMES REEXAMINED. But if that's too
  much bother, just consider why they, in the face of overwhelming opposition to their
  belief, stick to the one side. I mean, who cares about twenty years, right?

  They have all their doctrine coagulating with 1914, and can't let go. That's why they
  cling to 607, so they can use their fancy "day-for-a-year" and reach 1914 in seven
  gentile times.

  Also, look at the blood issue. Do some serious google searches to try to understand
  why they are wrong. I won't try to lead you there, the search is your own. But blood,
  the cross, no birthdays, some of the others- these JW different views were all designed
  to trigger so-called persecution and make the members feel special and make them feel
  that the world of Satan is attacking them.

  The NWT. You may be right that criticism can be thrown at any translation, but theirs is
  one of the more despicable ones. Examine their decision to put "Jehovah" into the New
  Testament, and their use of extreme meanings instead of common ones to support their
  doctrines- house-to-house, ...all [other] creation. Stuff like that.

  You have been considering spiritual things, so do that on your own. Start with whatever
  you want and let the spirit lead you. Don't rely too much on the research of others. Just
  as WTS will say that apostates lead you, assume they want to lead you. Go where you
  want to go with your research. It isn't that hard to see "the truth" of "the truth."
• 

  Sirona

  Paul,

  Individual JWs are nice people, generally. Unfortunately they're nice people who are in a cult.

  Also I need to tell you that a man in the local congregation here who has been sober for years and who struggled with alcoholism for years, suddenly took a turn for the worse and started to drink again. Rather than helping him they disfellowshipped him.

  JWs are not a group who will provide the best environment for recovery.

  Sirona
• 

  tartarus

  Digderidoo, takes courage to admit to a problem and to seek help.

  Good thing you came here, stick around, bro. This place has good, compassionate and intelligent folks. I'm surprised that the scary "apostates" turn out to be much better Christians than the often judgmental and self-righteous average JWs.

  I've only been here for a short time, but reading thru stories gives me a great deal of courage to deal with my messed up life too (I've had the drinking problem to deal in the past as well)

  I say this place can be more spiritual than your local Kingdom Hall.
• 

  tartarus

  This is what got me thru my many stays in mental ward:

  For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers 39 nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. .

  Nothing! Not Jehovah's Witnesses either !

  Feels good, doesn't it !
• 

  changeling

  About the 20 year discrepancy between 607 and 587... Twenty years may seem like no big deal, right? Look at it this way: What if two thousand years from now a new religion spang up and said Al Queada attacked the US on Sept. 11, 1981. By then, the attack that is so fresh in our minds today will be nothing but a bleep on the radar of time. Many people (those who do not research their history) may believe what they say.

  But, guess what? Al Queada did not even exist in 1981. George W. Bush was not president in 1981 (Reagan was). Osama Bin Laden was a young man and not a major player in 1981, etc, etc...

  You cannot plug a historical event into a different date in time w/o altering the facts. Twenty years IS a big deal!

  changeling :)
• 

  Cheetos

  Please do yourself a favor and read this web page it's welll writen:

  http--brci.org-Attachments-Org.pdf
• 

  digderidoo

  Thanks for your comments so far.

  With regards to the 607 issue. I have looked at many of the arguments mentioned for 587/6. History is a funny thing, in that it is written with agendas in mind. I have come to the conclusion that although there is much evidence in support of 587/6, the balance of probabilities would say that it is the correct date. However, because scholars do not take into account the 70 year desolation it cannot be proved beyond reasonable doubt, which i was trying to do, i cannot get to this burden of proof. In light of this i came to the reasoning that if this date was what was keeping me away, because it cannot be conclusively proved i should at least explore the reasonings of the JW's.

  Now i can look all day long at all the arguments in support of 587/6, but it will never imho be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Some will disagree and in all honesty i have looked at the arguments until they are coming out of ears. I feel i need to move on from this as i just keep going around in circles.

  For me now, only after going back to meetings, the issues that i have is first of all the treatment of disfellowshipped ones. Secondly, the discouragement of higher education. Thirdly and most importantly the idea that to get to Jehovah we need the organisation as a mediator.

  With regards to my drinking, i felt i needed to try to attempt a controlled way of drinking first before i attempted abstinence. This i did, so at least now i know controlled drinking doesn't work me at this present time. In a similar way i felt i had to go back with a clear mind to see what issues i had with it, to find out for myself, rather than rely on the information out there or this board.

  I am glad i went back and have no regrets. At least i can learn from the experience and move on from there.

  Paul
• 

  digderidoo

  Also i feel that i no longer fear JW's and their teachings. It is as if i have wrestled back a bit of that power.

  Paul
• 

  changeling

  To beat a dead horse: If you change the date of the destruction of Jerusalem to 607, you not only mess up the timeline for the Babylonians and the Jews, but for all the cultures surrounding and interacting with them at the time (ie. Assyria, Egypt...). You just can't mess with history to suit your needs.

  changeling :)