Could I get disfellowshipped for this?

by slimboyfat 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Ooops I think I went and did it this time. Could I get in serious trouble over this?

    I didn't go to the meeting on Sunday, and lazed about the house instead and listened to a bit of the meeting on the phone. (A privilege which I have because I don't keep so well ) Then in the afternoon I watched some TV and the door buzzer went. Instead of talking through the intercom I decided to stick my head out the window (as I sometimes do - we live on the third floor) to see who it was. It was a young man and woman, perhaps in their early twenties, looking business-like and I thought I saw that she had a folder in her hand. I shouted down, "what do you want?" And she said "can we come up and discuss it with you?" Thinking they must be selling something or else they would have stated the reason for the call I said no thanks and closed the window. That was the end of that.

    Well five minutes later there is a knock at the door, and would you believe it they were Jehovah's blooming Witnesses! For goodness sake you would think I would be able to recognise one by now. But they aren't from my congregation. So I quickly figured out they must be some of those English Witnesses always being sent up here on "Witnessing holidays" (what a weird concept - has anyone here ever done that? ) I can't even remember what the brother's opening gambit was, but I was so flustered by the situation (and still in my pajamas!) that I just said I was not interested. And I can't remember what "conversation stopper" reply he used, but somehow he overcame the objection anyway... To be continued.

    I need to go out right now. I will write how it ended later and ask for some advice. I think things really could go pear-shaped if this plays out badly.

  • FreudianSlip
    FreudianSlip

    I eagerly await the finale..

  • oompa
    oompa

    just what fleshy sex thing did you touch?..............oompa.......and how often and how vigorously?..........and did you make contact with any of your sex parts??

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    You are likely to get a call from Brother Hounder. If you told the witlesses that you are not interested, assuming that you are a fader, that is almost certain to generate that call. It is what happens then that they are going to get you for. It is then that they will ask you if you believe that the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger is the real truth, and then if you are not 100% positive that it is, they will get you for apostasy.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Okay so no one's interested - but I'm telling you what happened anyway.

    The brother got into his stride presenting the Bible Teach book and it had got past the point of no return as regards me admitting to actually being a Witness myself. So I just played along, rubbing my eyes half in disbelief. It was very strange to be on the other side of the door in a preaching session: something I never expected would happen to me.

    He asked me one of those "viewpoint" questions to draw the householder out: What causes most of the problems we see in the world? I told him intolerance causes a lot of the problems and religion causes a lot of intolerance. And I got started about how the Church of England is debating allowing women bishops at the moment, any why do religious groups feel it is acceptable to treat women as second class. "Do women have equal rights in your religion?" His reply was a bit misleading I thought and it started me off, and I was ranting about all sorts of things. I told him it is not decent in this day and age to say homosexuals are sinful or unnatural, and that no educated person should believe in creationism any more. I couldn't stop myself. I was finding it all very therapeutic to tell a real live Jehovah's Witness here at my front door what I really think about all sorts of things that bother me. I was saying we don't need all these rules, we just need to try and be kind to each other. I said some of the rules in the Bible were not kind, and stoning people for various offences was ridiculous, and we need to rely on our own judgement. But he said we need to look to God and trust what he says, and that things have changed since the days of the Mosaic Law. I asked him, if things changed between the time of Moses and when Jesus came, then haven't things changed between Jesus' day and today? Don't we need to look at the rules again and revise our view of women and homosexuality and so on?

    Well about ten minutes into it and my wife who had been listening from the start was making sort of nervous noises from behind me as if to quit it. And later she passed the door and gave me a look as if to say, what are you playing at here? But still it went on for another fifteen minutes or so. I really had to bite my lip at times not to give away that I know more than a regular householder would. At one point he could not find the verse that said women should be in subjection. I took his pocket Bible and had a look at it. I found the verse for him and handed him it back - but he didn't notice what I had done and closed the Bible in his hand again. And then later he claimed with an earnest look on his face that "1914 was predicted in the Bible you know. It would take me a while but I could prove it to you if you want." I couldn't help but have a little smile at that. But this was deep into the conversation, and it really would be unkind for me to make the brother go through all the contortions of that "proof". So I declined his offer. There would have been no point. And to really "take him on" over that issue I would have needed to reveal I know more than I was letting on.

    One funny moment when I was having my rant about how religions treat women badly: I asked the sister directly how she felt about not being able to have the same roles in her "church". And she was giving it: "oh that's fine I have no problem with that, women are really respected you know, and in the Bible, you know some books of the Bible were even written by women..." And the brother cut her off gently at that point and said some Bible books were named after women, and that does show women were given high regard even in Bible times.

    In general the brother did quite well actually; probably better than I would have done. And I was afterwards disappointed with what a pathetic householder I had made. I found it really difficult to argue against them - despite the fact I should know where the weak points are, from the inside. He seemed quite a clever chap, but it was also deeply depressing hearing him express such reactionary views about women and homosexuality and evolution with such conviction. It was like looking at myself in a mirror from a few years ago. I was on the verge of blurting out to him: "don't you have access to the Internet man? Free your mind! Go to University. Study something."

    When I closed the door I looked through the peep hole to see their reactions and the pair were smirking at each other. I think they were very surprised to find such a talkative householder and did not know what to make of it. I gather in England people don't talk much to Witnesses on the doors, but up here it is more common. So they will probably find more like me. Well not exactly like me I don't suppose.

    I thought I had been clever in refusing to take any literature from them so I would not merit being marked down for a return visit. But when I closed the door it dawned on me from some of the things he had said ("you are obviously someone who thinks about these things", and other such pat-on-the-head phrases) that I may well be in line for a return visit after all. I looked out the window and sure enough I saw him writing down my details on his ministry notebook.

    So what on earth am I going to do now? I am sure going to have some explaining to do! When these holiday Witnesses go home they pass on all their promising calls to local brothers to follow up the interest. So the brother might hand me over along with all the details about how evolution is true, women should be equal, nothing wrong with homosexuality and so on and so on... There is enough there to "convict" me for sure.

    So what can I do? Deny all knowledge to anyone who asks, hope this brother goes home soon and I never see him again? Or another tactic, could I say I realised they were on the ministry from the start and I was just "testing them out". Oh my goodness do you think anyone would buy that really? And might I get disciplined for such a "prank"?

    In any case probably I should lay low for the next couple of meetings, because these Witnessing holidays usually last a week or two.

    Then again, I am slightly tempted to turn up the Book Study on Tuesday just to see the look on the brother's face when I walk in.

    But seriously folks: if it does come out somehow to the local elders that this brother called on me and I was expressing all these views, what could happen to me? Could I get disfellowshipped over this? It seems silly really that it could happen just over expressing a few opinions, but I have not been in a position like this before. What do you think? And what should my tactics be if I am challenged about it?

  • Meeting Junkie No More
    Meeting Junkie No More

    Egads! What a conundrum you now find yourself in. Honestly, you just can't make sh!t like this stuff up - LOL!

    Geez, I just don't have one ounce of advice to give you - wish I did, but this is one hell of a knot you have tied yourself up in! I guess if it were me, I would just lie extremely low and hope the whole thing blows over. You've got to thank your lucky stars these were 'holiday Witnesses' (never actually heard of that myself but anyhow) if you ever get a follow-up visit by anyone else, feign ignorance and make like they've got the wrong house...mistakes like that can happen...you just don't recall ever having any conversation with anyone....etc.

    Loved reading your story - thanks for sharing that - I know it can be tempting to let 'em have it with both barrels more or less but you'll just have to be more circumspect in the future!

  • Summer wine
  • Summer wine
    Summer wine

    I would just deny all knowledge and say that they must have written down the address wrong

    Are you sure they were "holiday" witnesses and not new the the congregation ? It could have been their first meeting

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    If they are holliday witnessing and there is no follow up for a month, you could say your cousin from out of town was visiting and while you were out the dubs called on him. He has since returned to Iraq.

    I'm guessing you want to be a witness because your family and friends are dubs.

    Maybe you need to find new friends and move out of the territory your family lives in and fade.

    Or if you like your witness friend go along with the program.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Hey slim,

    I sympathise with your anxiety but you just wrote that story too well not to raise a chuckle...

    If I really wanted to escape the consequences (but do you?) I would certainly keep away from the meetings all summer -- but then if the guy decides to come back with a local you're toasted anyway...

    If it gets bad the "prank" line of defence may work, though. I suspect most JWs have secretly fancied being the other side of the door and trying good counter-arguments for a change (I know I often dreamt about that in my Witness years).

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