Jerry Bergman on JWs destroying library books

by Dogpatch 67 Replies latest jw friends

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  VoidEater

  I have never heard of JW's going to book stores to destroy books.

  It seemed to be a "righteous" excuse for bad behavior on the part of some of the teenagers I grew up with.
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  Shawn10538

  Where was this article published and when? Apparently it is by Bergman, but in what publication or form was it in before it became a post here? Just curious. If I want to refer to it to a JW I might get asked that question.
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  Old Goat

  A certain type of Witness feels compelled to act in God's place. If Jehovah is as The Watchtower presents him, and if he is the true God, he is perfectly capable of defending himself and his people. If he is not, he is no god. There is very little difference between someone who would steal a library book to defend his faith and a Muslim terrorist who would blow someone up to defend his. It's only a matter of degree. The lack of faith is the same.

  The book from the 1940's was probably either Stroup's Jehovah's Witnesses or Elmer Clark's Small Sects in America. Neither is rare or irreplaceable. Clark's is better than Stroup's. Stroup was a careless researcher. His book is seriously flawed, though interesting. Bergman borrowed entries from Stroup. This created errors in his JWs and Kindred Groups.

  Bergman's introduction to JWKG contains much that was inaccurate even at its writing. It remains the only publication of his worth having, however.

  As an additional thought on the stealing of books, this problem not limited to some fanatical Witnesses. It's a significant problem for libraries generally.

  If you want to see accurate historical research into Jehovah's Witnesses, the rough drafts published on the Blog Truthhistory.blogspot.com strike me as some of the very best. I've exchanged emails with the person who owns the blog. He's very helpful, though I do not know what his reaction would be if I told him how I felt about the Watchtower organization. Judging by one of his posts, if you aren't rude he welcomes comments and questions from everyone. His is historical research as it should be done. I look forward to the publication of his book on Nelson Barbour. He kindly let me read the finished manuscript. I’m more than a little impressed with his skill as a writer and researcher. Well done indeed!
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  Old Goat

  part of my post never made it. the first part should have read:

  That's utter nonsense. I was an elder for nearly thirty years if you count my time as a Congregation Servant. I can tell you no such order to destroy library books exists. The real problem is there are Witnesses who have no judgment at all. They are afraid of controversy. They are afraid of intellectual discourse.

  I agree with the adverse comment on the quality of Bergman's books, though I do own a copy of his Jehovah's Witnesses and Kindred Groups. There is a review somewhere online that details all its faults.
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  shamus100

  I agree with old goat - there is no order to destroy those books, and I doubt that any witness would abide by such an order or told to do so.

  However, it does not suprise me that active dubs would destroy those books. They resort to 'theocratic warfare' and are above the law in they're own minds.

  Dogpatch, Thank god people like you are doing the work that you do. If I could, I'd buy you a case of scotch.
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  Farkel

  Why doesn't anyone want to steal or destroy all that WTS shit/literature that one always sees laying scrunched up on the floors of laundromats, on bus stop benches, flopping around the yard at vacant homes and everywhere else which indicates no one wants to read that crap?

  Oh, wait! I just answered my own question!

  Farkel
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  steve2

  Sorry to say, but to be honest Bergman's books are so embarrassingly bad, it probably does the apostate cause some good for them to go missing...

  First, I deplore vandalism in any form, whether it be books or any other property owned by others. Second, there is simply no evidence that Jehovah's Witnesses themselves have done this to books held by public institutions...except circumstantial evidence. Third, it would be interesting to see how many Watchtower publications held by libraries, universities, etc have been defaced and tampered with by readers. In my local library, Raymond Franz' Crisis of Conscience remains a popular book, non-defaced. However, some jerk has hand-written anti-JW comments throughout the JW-backed book March Of Faith. Fourth, Jerry Bergman's claims to have written scholarly books are laughable. For all the noise he has made about higher rates of mental illness among JWs compared to the general population, he has yet to submit this attractive hypothesis to any scientific scrutiny. Yet, he uses the language of science to dress up his compelling anecdotal observations. I should add that, however badly assembled his "research" papers are, vandalising copies held by public institutions is still deplorable.
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  garybuss

  Jerry Bergman was the third former Witness I ever contacted. Jerry gave me Randy Watters' phone number. I own three of Jerry's books and have read two cover to cover. I've collected Jerry's articles and tapes over the years and enjoyed Jerry's work with Ken Raines.
  
  http://www.seanet.com/~raines/papers.htmlI've heard a few critics of Jerry's work but I haven't been given specific errors to check on from those critics. Much of Jerry's writing is of a personal experience nature. It'd be pretty darn hard (and stupid) for me to argue with a man about his own personal experiences.
  
  I've corresponded and talked with Jerry over the years and he gave freely of his time and helped me sort through some of my challenges. Jerry's help to me was right up there with Randy Watters.
  
  I like Jerry's books and I like Jerry. Nancy and I were guests in Jerry and Diane's home and Jerry and Diane took us to dinner on one of our cross country trips. We got to see Jerry's library (and it's huge).
  
  I'm as agnostic as they come and Jerry knew that and he never once discouraged me. He helped me every chance he got. Thanks Jerry, your kindness will never be forgotten.
  
  
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  wha happened?

  There wasn't a confession of course, the comments were obviously from a JW because no one outside the organization would have a clue as to what these books are about.
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  slimboyfat

  That's good Jerry was a help to you garybuss. I guess people can wear different hats. I know on a good day I can be pretty helpful, but on a stinker darn mean.

  I don't begrudge Jerry Bergman his experience which is no doubt considerable. It's just that he makes extrapolations beyond what the evidence will bear. It is not good social science to claim a higher incidence of mental illness/suicide/violence without hard evidence. And despite good anecdotes and intuition, the fact is there is no hard evidence on many of these issues.