by hamilcarr 47 Replies latest social current
Burn,
hillary_step. To me, Wikipedia is a valid research tool. I don't believe there's anything wrong with fluctuating ideas. My current view on animals rights for sure has drastically changed over the years thanks to internet research and informal discussions.This is HS' default position when his windbag is out of air.
Alwyas nice to know that when I am 'out of air', there is always another windbag to put words in my mouth. ;)
HS
Maybe we should extend the logos community to nonhumans?
God (or anyone) forbid!
Seriously, the logos community as I mean it cannot be "extended" except through bi-lateral verbal communication (translation included); and even in that case it wouldn't be "extended," we would just realise that it is broader than we thought.
Meanwhile we may certainly quit construing our specific use of language as "superiority" (which btw only makes sense within a language-supported "scale of values"). We may get more and more conscious of the analogies between human language and "communication" within and between other species. We can build more respect for non-human beings (and this doesn't need to depend on what percentage of DNA code or any quantifiable level of similarity with "us" -- such arithmetics sounds awfully speciocentric to me!). And the less we "disney-ise" them the better imho (even though some level of logo/anthropomorphism is probably incompressible... to us). Starting by acknowledging the alogos within the human species (the part of us which resists language, the "animal," the "wild" or the "feral" in us if you prefer) as such would be a better starting point I guess.
Starting by acknowledging the alogos within the human species (the part of us which resists language, the "animal," the "wild" or the "feral" in us if you prefer) as such would be a better starting point I guess.
And by agreeing that bi-lateral verbal communication (as the apex of the logos community) is a hoax
'A chimp at an Israeli wildlife park'
Will israel start to treat palestinians as human, and release them from the wall?
S
LOL!
Narkissos,
Meanwhile we may certainly quit construing our specific use of language as "superiority" (which btw only makes sense within a language-supported "scale of values"). We may get more and more conscious of the analogies between human language and "communication" within and between other species. We can build more respect for non-human beings (and this doesn't need to depend on what percentage of DNA code or any quantifiable level of similarity with "us" -- such arithmetics sounds awfully speciocentric to me!). And the less we "disney-ise" them the better imho (even though some level of logo/anthropomorphism is probably incompressible... to us). Starting by acknowledging the alogos within the human species (the part of us which resists language, the "animal," the "wild" or the "feral" in us if you prefer) as such would be a better starting point I guess.
The moment one shrugs off the Augustinian worldview that creation was given to mankind, for mankind, to be used by mankind, the more rapidly one recognizes that we are just a part of the world and have no more, or no less rights than should be awarded to a garter snake, or a sparrow.
St Augustine was in my view one of the worst things that ever happened to Western Society, and we are still living with the fallout from many of his theological experimentations, including his egocentric and dangerous view of purpose of 'creation'.
Maybe Augustine missed the NT portion about dead sparrows being counted in heaven, or maybe he was just lustfully feeding off the memories of his youthful afternoon romps with his concubine to be able to recall. :).
HS
All this logos talk ;) reminds me that I'd hoped that Narkissos would see and comment on a thread someone posted a few weeks back that referenced a video on Bonobos:
hamilcarr,
agreeing that bi-lateral verbal communication (as the apex of the logos community) is a hoax
The hoax "rights" are made of, too...
But if we can't dispense with that hoax we've got to be lucid about it -- and that imo is the pending task of philosophy, concurring with our recent conversations on the need of thinking the extra-human "real" in less logo/anthropocentric ways.
HS,
Augustine unfortunately had some ready-made excuses from Scripture, starting with the first page of Genesis...
Among the texts he might have missed, too, are the final discourses of Yhwh in the book of Job. I can hardly think of more strongly anti-humanistic pieces in... human literature. Man and his concerns and questions are radically moved out of center stage.
Six,
Thank you very much for this fascinating video (I did miss the other thread, although I had seen other documentaries on her work before). This does raise a lot of questions, both on "us" and "them," and many more on the potential relationship and its consequences. At the very least it should call for respect...
I did miss the other thread
Here's a link to the original thread started by inkling:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/161275/1.ashx
Six, thx for reposting this stunning vid.
Highlight: They're learning to become like us, the interspecies differences are not due to biology, but can be ascribed to culture.
So, if we grant them "rights" within a meaningful community (in which they learn to interact or use language (I guess the logos community isn't that remote )), we could elicit their unexpected potential of acting as human-like moral(?) agents.
Stunning video of simian discovery. Also Sprach Zarathustra adds to the effect during the "awakening".
Epic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2XcPNSeUMQ
Incidentally, I just started reading that on Sunday. Anyone else read it?
BTS
Also Sprach Zarathustra adds to the effect during the "awakening".
The human being as a mere ape himself
unless he attains the status of Ubermensch?
