Hello;
Something has been bugging me for years and years, and always bugged me when I was an active Witness. I've never mentioned it before and I've never seen it discussed. Like with a lot of other matters, I just assumed that this meant that I was missing something that everyone else understood. Today, I can't figure out how I ever managed to make myself believe that.
I am confused about some of the sources that the Society appears to have assigned particular importance to. That is, the Society seems (seemed?) to think that these sources are significant and I can't figure out why. I don't think that they are citing these sources as frequently as they used to, but I haven't really been keeping up with the literature.
Why is their go-to Roman Catholic translation of the Bible the Douay Bible? This has always struck me as being very weird. Their older publications (pre-1990s) quote this version all the time, often as one of only three or four translations cited in a book. This is not a common translation at all. I'm something of a Bible collector; I have loads and loads of different translations, but the only time I've ever seen a Douay Bible, it was a hundred year old antique being offered as a collectable. More frequently seen Catholic Bibles are the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB), Today's English Version (TEV; also known as the Good News Bible), Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition, Jerusalem Bible, and King James Version With Apocrypha. Why not use one of these?
What's up with all the quotes from Parade magazine? For most of the 1950s and 1960s, the Watching the World section of Awake! read like a recap of Parade--seemed like every other news piece cited it. Are you familiar with Parade magazine? It is not a normal news magazine. It is a free insert in Sunday newspapers. Most Sunday newspapers in the US have something like it; they aren't always called Parade, but all are very similar. Parade prints trivia, puzzles, cartoons, psychic predictions, celebrity and entertainment gossip, and ultrapatriotic rhetoric. Why would the Writing Department turn to this, of all publications, as a frequently cited news source? (To their credit, more recent issues of Awake! seem to be relying more heavily on The Economist, which is a totally reliable and absolutely mainstream news source--but why didn't they always use it?)
I could go on and on. I mostly wanted to mention that the Writing Department's sources always felt a little strange to me and I've never seen anyone mention it before. Thanks for reading my ramblings.
Peace,
Heather.
Some questions about WT sources
by witnessgirl 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
witnessgirl
-
insearchoftruth
By the way, welcome Heather,
I also have had questions and issues with WTS sources. My wife's study sister provide me a copy of the 'Trinity' book and I paged through it, somewhat out of kindness to the sister (she is a very nice lady) and noted that there were no references provided for all thier incredible statements. Also a lot of times they just say 'Bible scholars' which really gets me as well.
I hope there is a lot of activity on this thread, a very good question...look forward to seeing the responses.
-
jamiebowers
IMHO, it is more important to question the WTB&TS's accuracy in quoting than their information sources. There have been many posts on here that prove that the society quotes out of context.
-
james_woods
There was a recent thread on "Torture Stake versus Cross". In it, poster Terry and I speculated on the Alexander Hislop ranting anti-catholic book "The Two Babylons".
Hislop proposed that the usual crossbar christian cross was a fabrication of the Catholic Church, and also dug up various babylonian references to symbols somewhat like it. The witnesses seemed to be quite taken with it, given their famous hatred of the Catholic church.
This book used to be a big favorite of the witnesses - many KH libraries and even ordinary Witnesses had a copy. I think you might have even been able to get one through the society at one time.
I have often wondered if this might not be the true historical foundation for their teaching that Jesus died on a simple stake in the ground - is it possible that they did not even think this up on their own? Kind of like they recycled 1914 from the Adventists?
Since you mentioned Parade, I did notice that years ago, the Awake would fairly often quote from the "Christian Science Monitor"...also a little odd, wouldn't you say?
-
Awakened at Gilead
Heather,
Are you familiar with the Il Picolo Debacle (documented in the book Signs of the Last Days?)
*** w83 5/15 pp. 4-7 Earthquakes—A Sign of the End? ***
In the Italian journal IlPiccolo, of October 8, 1978, Geo Malagoli observed:"Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted fact—our generation is an unfortunate one in many ways."
***g772/22p.11"ThereWillBeGreatEarthquakes"***Interestingly, for a period of 1,059 years (856 to 1914 C.E.), reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes, with 1,972,952 fatalities. But compare that with the accompanying partiallist citing 43 instances of earthquakes, in which 1,579,209 persons died during just the 62 years from 1915 to 1976 C.E. Here, year by year, are the locations of some of the quakes of this period, along with statistics on the fatalities:
Note that Il Picollo is merely citing from the 1977 Awake mag. Later to give credibility to their ridiculous figures (which they now have revised) they don't cite the original source or the Awake, they cite the thirdhand source, Il Piccolo....
Is this underhanded or what?
Lance
-
witnessgirl
IMHO, it is more important to question the WTB&TS's accuracy in quoting than their information sources. There have been many posts on here that prove that the society quotes out of context.
Oh I know. I've seen some excellent analysis of some of the quotations taken out of context in defense of the NWT, and seen the actual reviews that quotations were lifted from. Likewise the Creation book. I was mostly curious here about the apparent fondness for certain publications that nobody else would have chosen to use as sources.
I had forgotten about it, but I do remember seeing a lot of Christian Science Monitor quotes. I didn't know about the Il Picollo reference; that's really funny. -
james_woods
They were also not above using blatant "urban legend" when they had some space to fill.
I shall never forget reading in Awake (for about the fourth time outside other religious magazines) that stupid story on the "missing days in the celestial mechanism".
It was supposed to be from puzzled NASA scientists who discovered that "some days were missing from the astronomical calculations of the stars" or some such. One bible-reading scientist rushed out and got his king James, and found that the exact time was explained by certain OT events, like the sun standing for hours in the sky so that the Israelites could kill more Phillistines.
It was, or course, a wildly idiotic fundy christian myth. You cannot measure a day missing my stars, earth, moon, or anything like that. It just is what it is. IIRC, Awake just attributed it to "NASA".
-
cathyk
Hi Heather,
Why is their go-to Roman Catholic translation of the Bible the Douay Bible? This has always struck me as being very weird. Their older publications (pre-1990s) quote this version all the time, often as one of only three or four translations cited in a book. This is not a common translation at all.
At the time that many of the older WT publications were written this was the most common Bible translation found in Catholic households. This would be especially true of Judge Rutherford's time. Both the New American Bible and Jerusalem Bible weren't published until the late 1960s/early 1970s. Later WT publications do reference these. Have they used the Douay version as a reference lately? I haven't been keeping track.
the only time I've ever seen a Douay Bible, it was a hundred year old antique being offered as a collectable.
It's still in print, available from publishers like TAN Books and Publishers, which caters to a more traditionalist type of Catholic. Older copies are in demand as collectibles, as you note.
Parade prints trivia, puzzles, cartoons, psychic predictions, celebrity and entertainment gossip, and ultrapatriotic rhetoric. Why would the Writing Department turn to this, of all publications, as a frequently cited news source? (To their credit, more recent issues of Awake! seem to be relying more heavily on The Economist, which is a totally reliable and absolutely mainstream news source--but why didn't they always use it?)
The simplest answer is probably that it's what the guys in the Writing Department read on Sunday mornings. It's a likely source for lots of their ideas.
Cathy
-
witnessgirl
Hi Cathy!
At the time that many of the older WT publications were written this was the most common Bible translation found in Catholic households. This would be especially true of Judge Rutherford's time.
I wondered if that might be the case (although I kind of doubted it because I'd never encountered a new copy of the translation). I've never really known any Catholics, though, so I wasn't sure.
The simplest answer is probably that it's what the guys in the Writing Department read on Sunday mornings. It's a likely source for lots of their ideas.
My guess too. It just seemed really odd to me, since it was full of psychic stuff and patriotic stuff even back in the 1950s. Reading older bound volumes of Awake! it's kind of funny how you can see what sort of books the Writing Department liked to read because they wrote articles based on them.
I really really like your website, BTW. I collect old Society literature (mostly Russell and Rutherford stuff), and I wouldn't be surprised if I've done business with you at some point or another. Dealing in old WT publications always seemed like a fun business to me, I just could never do it because I hate to part with anything really old or interesting, even if I've already got multiple copies. I liquidated most of my library on eBay after I DA'd and have been kicking myself for it ever since. -
Solace1998
doesnt seem to be
are they not just quoting the same source twice
?
I admit, i dont get it.