KunFu edited to add paragraphs... Hey, We'll use some rational thinking to help you out with the irrational thinking that's going on in your mind. So you wonder, what if you're wrong? What's the WORST that will happen if you're wrong? What's the WORST you'll suffer?...............I want you to think about this before you read on. Answer in your mind what's the worst scenario........What's the absolute WORST? We want to find out specifically what your greatest fear is. As long as it stays ambiguous in your mind, you'll be wondering just what it is that's scaring you. I don't personally believe in a god. But if there was a god and he's the way everyone describes him, and he gave you a brain to reason with and he's everywhere and knows everything, and can read your thoughts, then he knows you have legitimate reasons for doubting certain things. He knows that you're a sincere person and that you've got good reason to question things. And he's supposed to be loving, so he can empathize with you and knows the pain you've dealt with. So I seriously doubt that if you're a half-way decent person, that god would be doing a service to the world to either wipe you out or fry you forever . So your worst case scenario probably doesn't even match up with the idea that god is loving....one of the many masses of contradictions that exist in religion. On the other hand, what a relief if there's actually no god! If there's no god, it's like a huge burden lifted from you. That means there's no tool-bag watching your every move and judging it. And if there is a god and he's loving, he's probably very understanding and wise. I mean, if he's intelligent enough to make the planets and he knows EVERYTHING, he's probably not some juvenile a$$wipe that just is sooooo hungry for people to tell him how great he is. That would be like me owning an ant farm and burning the ants because they're not telling me how great I am every minute because I'm insecure and weak-minded. Trust me, the god of the bible is a fiction. Very much so. If there is a creative being, he's probably way different than the way they make him out to be. How's THIS for logic? "Ummmmmm, son, you know, Fred that lives across town? Well, he's done some bad things. He killed a man. Now, I want to forgive him for doing it, but the only way I can forgive him, is to kill YOU. I know you're a good person. You're probably the most generous and caring person in the world, but the ONLY way I can forgive Fred is to let these gang members over here torture you to death. But I LOVE you!". See, I say if you're going to choose to believe in a god, then at least hold him up to the same behavior and reasoning standards that you hold yourself and other people to. At the very LEAST...but actually his standards should be much higher. See the stupidity? You have nothing to be afraid of except your own imagination. And also, like I said, what a breath of fresh air if there's actually no such thing as a god! At the very least, we know that the god people believe in is imaginary. "No one can see god and live!" How convenient. There's absolutely zero proof! "You just have to believe!". Ahhh...so once again, no evidence. God is imaginary. As imaginary as the Greek and Roman gods. If there's no sensory evidence......nothing seen or sensed, other than as a concept, then you're strictly in the realm of belief and belief, my friend, isn't fact. Belief is dependent on the imagination. That's how the mind works. You've never seen a "god" but your mind can form a mental image or likeness of a big guy on a throne with light surrounding him. Belief is dependent on imagination. Facts, on the other hand, are not. The only thing we know for sure is that the world exists. Even ideas like the big bang are theory. And no one REALLY has ever stopped to ask this one simple question. Did the universe have a beginning? This question isn't really all that important for being a happy person. People put waaaaaay too much importance on the origins of life. But the belief in a god or in a big bang assumes or presupposes that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning, and no one really knows if it did. It could have just always been here. We've assumed that because everything we know of in our finite, puny little human existence has a beginning that the same applies to the universe. The truth is, WE DON'T KNOW. And not knowing is okay. It's really not that big a deal! Do you know exactly how your computer works or your tv or radio? Could you build one from scratch? Do you understand the workings of the body? Our understanding of the world is VERY limited, even with science as it is today. Imagine being an ancient Greek or an ancient Israelite. You don't have microscopes. You're a farmer your entire life. Suddenly a disease swoops in and kills a bunch of people! What the f??? GOD must have cursed us! What did we do wrong? Well we did complain the other day about the weather and being hungry. THAT must be what ticked god off! Let's repent and burn a live goat!!! We know god loves goats!! Especially burnt ones!!! Jesus f-ing Christ!!!!!! But yeah, if you're going to choose a belief, atheism is a pretty good choice in my book. And if you're going to make something your "religion", why not make science your religion? Even if some of the theories turn out not to be true, at least they tell you from the start it's a theory. And the theories of science are usually more sane and reasonable than some of the crazy stuff religions have come up with. There's just so much more sanity and clarity. And people aren't killing other people over whether they like Darwin or Sir Isaac Newton better. So, if you really like rational thinking, and I think you do, I hope this post has given you some relief and clarity. Trust me. I cursed every god and demon I could think of. Jehovah, Jesus, Buddha, Bahaulah, Satan, Krishna, Vishnu, Zeus, Hermes, Ares.......and many more....just to get over my irrational fear back in the day, and 6 years later I'm still healthy. No one struck me dead. If you want to overcome your fear, try saying "Jehovah is my b_tch". You won't be struck by lightning. hahahaha.........Take it easy pal. Oh, and no need to try to be a good person and save the world and all that crap. Just relax and enjoy yourself. You're alright the way you are. Just take it easy. Enjoy your life as much as possible. Let the evangelists worry about "saving the world" and all that non-sense.......Take care!
im an atheist and i like the idea of being an athiest but its kinda hard
by Lotus65 43 Replies latest jw friends
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FlyingHighNow
He also said he knew I had Cherokee blood in me, by the way my hair was turning gray and my cheekbones. He was right, my great grandmother was 1/2.
Mine, too. Only she was Cherokee/Seminole. And Mom's dad was Cherokee. I noticed that Dad, who looked very native, had the same hairline, type of hair and graying pattern to me. I wonder if you and I have similar hair.
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jaguarbass
Derek: To be young dumb and full of cum. Are you in the Guiness and full of anger?
They say there is no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole, or an atheist in a life boat.
Only assholes say that. Whatever truth it has is no more profound than saying there are no clean underpants in foxholes. It is a pretty popular litterary phrase, I didnt realize it was only being uttered by a-holes Could an A-hole be someone who thinks different than you?
I've read Dawkins, all he does is change what creationist say by 5%. His books are the same as an evangelist with a 5% twist to no God.
Then you haven't read Dawkins at all, or if you have, you've somehow completely misunderstood everything he's written. That would not surprise me, although I doubt very much you've read a significant amount of his work. You really don't seem up to the task. I've read the God Delusion. I have it sitting right here on my library shelf. I dont know what task you think I'm up to. I'm pretty sure I've been around the block many more times than you have. I have read many books by creationist and Dawkins book is just like a creationist book. He just spins it the other way. Thats the 5% I havent read a significant amount of Dawkins, I have only bought and read the God Delusion, Its not that good of a book. If you read the reviews on Amazon a good number of people agree with me. Why would I keep buying books by an author that I dont view as being very knowledgeable or good. What percentage of difference would you say Dawkins writing is from James P Gills a real Doctor and scientist book," Darwin under the microscope" And dont tell me 100% because that would tell me you dont understand percentages. I have studied business and art and to be credited with having something new and original it only has to be 5% different from something that is already existing.
Read Darwin and research it and you will find Darwin and Dawkins both tell you why evolution is impossible dont take my word for it.
The beginning and end of that sentence manage to contain good advice although I'm sure that is purely accidental. Everybody should read Darwin and Dawkins (to be honest, there's not that much need to read Darwin's work for an understanding of evolution, the science has of course moved on in the last century and a half) and nobody should ever take your word for anything, for obvious reasons.
The middle of the sentence, of course is more your style, being as it plainly is, complete nonsense. Darwin managed to show not only that evolution takes place but in broad principle how it happens. Dawkins and many many many other scientists since Darwin, have refined the original theories and found a superabundance of supporting evidence, to prove beyond all doubt that evolution is a fact, and demonstrate in exquisite detail how it happens.
One problem is the word evolution. A few years back Harley Davidson had an engine called the Evolution. You dont believe that that engine just showed up one day in a corner of the Harley plant in Milwaukee do you?
Evolution means change.
You and Dawkins and many others have seen change in life and organisms and call that evolution.
Well, many creatitonist will acknowledge that. Life adapts and that is called evolution.
I think the problem is the evolutionist can not show where lizards turn into birds and bears turn into wales.
Also according to Dawkins and the creationist. Life just appears there are no transitional forms in the fossil records.
Life appears just like God created it in the bible.
Creationis call the appearance God, and you call it evolution.
Also you dont appear to be old enough or well read enough having only read evolutionary atheistic material to know of and understand the mathematical improbabilities of evolution taking place on this planet.
The age of the sun, the distance of the sun and the time for life to evolve. The math doesnt add up.
When I was your age I didnt know either. And when I was your age I was a little ass hole just like you selling another brand of religion.
I still dont know what the truth is. But I got a pretty good line on you.
Have you ever seen anything come from nothing?
Can you shake up a bag of screws and come up with a clock?
Had you even seen Dawkins on a TV chat show - let alone read his work - you wouldn't even think of asking such inane questions. What have they got to do with evolution by natural selection? The first question of course is always assumed by the theist never to apply to his god. Something can't come from nothing except an all-powerful intelligent creator. What nonsense!
I dont really believe the bible. I know it is a book and it exist in that sense I believe it. I believe it is the jewish peoples attempt to explain the unknown and it is a history of their nation.
So I am talking about something coming from nothing in the material realm.
Since I dont believe the bible, God could have been created or not. I dont know about the invisible spiritual realm.
I dont think many do. Because 1 as you say it doesnt exist or 2 because the lord of the spiritual realm doesnt want us to know. We are locked out of that area.
But I strongly suspect the material world has an interface with the spiritual world.
Atheist appear to have a vendetta and anger that clouds clear thinking.
Of course, that's why people don't believe in gods, because they want revenge. It's hard to believe that there are people so eye-wateringly moronic that they think atheists only pretend not to believe in imaginary beings because they're angry at them. It's a cheap and lazy shot even from someone as profoundly idiotic as you.
I might be an idiot because I have been around the block enough and read enough to, unlike you know that I dont know.
But I have been on this board for a minute and I sense a lot of anger and not just from you.
But maybe in my attempt to fire off a response before going to work, I was too stereotypical.
I do believe people can come to atheism from all different angles and all different reasons.
But to have a dialouge and an argument you have to risk taking certain stances as we are doing here.
Every story I know of has a protaginist and an antagonist.
Dont take my word for it check it out.
Again, some accidental good advice. Nobody should ever take your word for anything. Luckily, I don't think that's very likely.
Numnuts I dont think its accidental. Information is power. When the Atheist do a better job of assimilating and presenting the info I may wave their flag, if it ever adds up. At the moment I'm on a hung jury.
Even your Idol Dawkins is only 70% sure of his convicitons, why do you have a problem with me being 51/49 ?
That little voice in the back of your head is reality and common sense.
I bet you wish you had a voice like that in your head.
Knock back some more guiness you misserable old Sod.
You'll blow your brains out in 5 years with your atheism or come crying on your knees like a little babby getting yourself born again before some charlatan preacher.
I've been watching you ding bats for 56 years. Nothing changes.
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digderidoo
i like the idea that comes with freedom of though and analytical thinking that follows being atheistic vs having a religion
It isn't a question of atheism vs religion. Why does God have to come with religion? Being brought up a JW instills this thinking in us.
For me, i have tried to go the Atheist route but i can't. So what i had to do was to seperate God from religion, especially the JW religion, which involved hard work and plenty of research. Now i believe in a god, problem is i don't know which one, or who he is, i just call him the spirit of the universe, which works for me.
Paul
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KungFu
Thanks summer, I don't know why. When I typed the message, I did it in paragraphs but when it posted...it posted as one long, run-on paragraph. How do I fix that??
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KungFu
See, that last post did the same thing.
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Gopher
KungFu -- are you typing your post in Microsoft Word and then posting here? That doesn't translate so well. Sometimes it's better to use "WordPad" or "NotePad" first.
If that isn't the problem, you can try un-checking the "HTML formatting" box below, and click on the Automatic CR/LF box below. Some folks with a Foxfire browser have found that works.
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KungFu
Thanks Gopher,
It worked. Muchas grassyass.
Onto a quick branch from this topic.........
Mental traps you can avoid and tactics to use:
1)Sometimes when we change beliefs or have beliefs contrary to popular opinion, many people have a default belief that they feel they have to justify their beliefs. AVOID this trap like the freakin plague. You have no need to justify your beliefs to people.
2)Make no apologies for your beliefs or views and state them just as forcefully and assuredly as those that try to impose their beliefs on you. Don't be half-assed about your beliefs. Have strong opinions......you can allow yourslef to see other viewpoints when it serves you. Just don't let people try to bully you psychologically, and instead contradict and attack!
Here's an example from my life:
Father: Why don't you believe in Jehovah?
Me: The same reason you don't believe in Zeus, Apollo, Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy.
Father: I KNOW there is a god.
Me: And I KNOW there's no god.
Or you can find common ground in your belief:
Another real-life example:
Me: You know, even though we have different beliefs about how life got here, we do have some beliefs in common. You believe no-one created God and I believe no-one created the universe. And really, the creator would have to be even more complex than the universe, since he's intelligent enough to create it and powerful enough to. So we're both at the same point. There comes a point where we really have no explanation how something complex couldn't have been created. And the creator is MORE complex than a watch or computer or anything manmade. So we have that in common. We both believe that at some point, something complex wasn't created by anyone.
Father:Sex outside of marriage is wrong.
Me: I have absolutely no problem with sex outside of marriage myself. I think it's more a matter of personal preference.
Father: But the bible says it's wrong.
Me: So what's your point? The bible also says it's okay to stone people to death. Like I said, I see the advantages and disadvantages of monogamy and polygamy. Besides that, you know David and Solomon and Abraham were polygamists. People you admire. So maybe there's something to this polygamy thing. But then again, ONE wife is probably plenty. hahahaha. I kind of feel sorry for guys who are married to 30 women. Poor guy! And if they all divorce him, he splits his money 30 ways.
3) Avoid the trap of having to be "right" or finding the "truth". The best you can do is have some understandings of the world that are as accurate as possible with the limited info you have. The rest you'll either have to take a "I don't know, and that's fine" attitude or forming beliefs that work for you. And realizing that most beliefs have their own logic to them and make sense in their own way. So you can see the world as other people see it without losing a sense of what you believe.....a good way to learn about and connect with people while maintaining your own beliefs. -
IP_SEC
im an atheist
no you arent.
just kinda in a jam because i need to try and find something to completely lose the thoughts in the back of my head
the proof is here.^
i feel like its alot easier to remain agnostic and in a state of neutrallity rather than to actively choose a position. what do u guys think?
Not trying to be mean. Just make a point.
you are either an agnostic, or a deist, theist, waffling pussy, not mature enough to make a decision.
You asked what do I think? prolly the last one.
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Hortensia
well said, KW