I cannot see how anyone can run the race when they keep moving the finish line back indefinitely. And the prize: Everlasting celibacy? No wonder I chose to dog it.
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-03-08 WT Study (PROGRESS)
by blondie 18 Replies latest jw friends
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OnTheWayOut
Para. 1
Yes, Saul had the equivalent of a university education but it had not led him to accept Jesus as the Christ proving in the WTS eyes that such an education is not beneficial.
What does the WTS [say] was responsible for his change?
*** w59 6/1 p. 345 The Resurrection Hope *** Likewise, only the resurrection of Jesus and his meeting Saul of Tarsus face to face accounts for that highly educated, fanatically persecuting Pharisee’s becoming the Christian Paul.
Is it likely that each person will have the opportunity of meeting Jesus "face to face" to convert them?
Clearly then, a college education is okay. If Jesus wants you, he will get you when
he and you are ready for your face-to-face meetup.Q 8. How did Saul treat those outside of Judaism?
Don't jws believe that all people who die at Armageddon, men, women, and children, are deserving of everlasting destruction even if they had not been witnessed to individually?
While they do teach that not all people may be reached with the good news
because of "community responsibility," most JW's don't think
that through. They think that each and every individual who dies at Armageddon will
have had a chance to accept the truth. The community responsibility stuff came to
explain how Armageddon could be imminent even though many have not been preached to.I am staying at a hotel near a District Convention site while my wife attends the DC.
They offer a free buffet breakfast here. I can see the JW's be polite but basically treat me
and other guests who are clearly not dressed to go to the convention like we have poison ivy
or something. They smile politely, but separate from us like the Red Sea parting.11. Later, Paul and his group searched for rightly inclined people in the Macedonian city of Philippi. A Jewish proselyte named Lydia listened to the good news and became a Christian. The civil authorities beat Paul and Silas with rods and threw them into prison. However, Paul preached to the jailer, with the result that he and his family were baptized as worshippers of Jehovah.-Acts 16:11-34.
"rightly inclined" or in other words "deserving" in the opinion of jws.
There's the out for every JW. "Rightly inclined" means they are willing to study WT literature
and gradually change into drones of the collective. If anyone is not ready, willing, able to do
that, the JW can justify "hating" him or at least avoiding him.CONCLUDING COMMENTS
The real point in this article is to obey the elders no matter what. So many jws I know do the passive resistance route. They get the minimum in field circus, go to enough meetings to stay off the elder radar, do whatever they want at home, videos, movies, games, highlighting the WT on the way to the meeting, never donating any money to the congregation. They aren't concerned about what God might see only humans.
Sadly, that is what JW's have become. And if they would put their money in the donation box,
|that's all WTS would care about. Everyone would doing okay as far as God's organization is
concerned. -
Doubting Bro
Blondie,
No additional comments, just a big thank you. Your comments really helped me see the mind control being employed in the WT articles and changed my perspective on all things WT. And this from a person who would spend at least an hour or two getting ready to conduct. Once a person sees how the WT uses the methods you point out to restrict thinking, you can't possibly still believe they are "God's Channel".
Oh, I do have one comment regarding using Paul's education. OTWO hit it right on the head. The shots at college keep getting more and more insane. Guess what guys? Most JWs are not listening. I still know plenty that are going to college and plenty of parents with kids in elementary school who are saving for college.
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Mary
16. Consider how Paul handled a problem that arose in the Syrian city of Antioch. The Christian congregation there was split over the issue of circumcision. (Acts 14:26-15:2) Since Paul had been appointed to take the lead in preaching to the uncircumcised Gentiles, he might have thought of himself as an expert in dealing with non-Jews and therefore well-qualified to resolve the problem. (Read Galatians 2:8,9.) When his efforts did not seem to clear up the issue, however, "'with humility and modesty, he went along with arrangements to approach the governing body in Jerusalem to discuss the matter."
First of all, there was no centralized "governing body" in Jerusalem. Yes, there were 'apostles' and 'older men', but the main reason Paul went to Jerusalem to try and clear the matter up is because it was men from Jerusalem who had tried enforcing the issue of circumcision on other Christians in the first place. Therefore, when the matter was not cleared up quickly, it was only common sense that he go to where the problem originated. The very fact that after Paul's conversion he most certainly did not seek out "guidance" or "approval" from any 'governing body members in Jerusalem', speaks volumes. Paul instead was instructed by Jesus to go to Damacus and start preaching there. Surely if there had been a "governing body" through which Jesus dispensed "new light", he would have instructed Paul to go there immediately. Paul did not visit Jerusalem for several years afterwards, nor did he seek their approval:
"...But when God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called [me] through his undeserved kindness, thought good 16 to reveal his Son in connection with me, that I might declare the good news about him to the nations, I did not go at once into conference with flesh and blood. Neither did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles previous to me, but I went off into Arabia, and I came back again to Damascus. Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to visit Ce´phas, and I stayed with him for fifteen days. But I saw no one else of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord...."-----Galatians 1:15-19
In fact, Paul repeatedly emphasized that his guidance did not need the approval or guidance of any 'governing body' class, but instead, his ministry was connected directly with Jesus:
".....Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I seeking to please men? If I were yet pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave. For I put YOU on notice, brothers, that the good news which was declared by me as good news is not something human; for neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught [it], except through revelation by Jesus Christ-----Galatians 1:10-12
He cooperated fully as its members listened to the matter, reached a decision, and assigned him to be one of their messengers. (Acts 15:22-31) Thus Paul 'took the lead in showing honor' to his fellow servants. -Rom. 12:10b.
Actually, that's not the entire picture. The 'older men' and Paul discussed the problem and they unanimously reached a decision that circumcision would be optional, not compulsory:
". . .For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!" (Acts 15:28-29)
Yet this paragraph attempts to give the impression that Paul somehow submitted to the council of this supposed 'governing body', when in fact he did nothing of the kind. He went to see them as an equal, presented them with the facts and they ALL came to a decision. One can only imagine what would happen today if a "newly converted man" attempted to discuss scriptural matters with the governing body members at Brooklyn.
19. All who wish to progress spiritually must manifest a humble spirit as Paul did. He exhorted fellow Christians to do "nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to you." (Phil. 2:3)
This is a piss-poor translation and it gives a very different interpretation as to what was being said. While the NWT gives the impression here that you are to submit yourself to those who are "superior to you" (in fact, Jesus emphasized over and over and over again that the "greatest one among you is a minister"), every other translation that I've read indicates that a person is to be humble, yes, but not because someone has a position in the congregation that is "superior" to yours, but rather because humility is a mark of Christianity:
"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others."----New International Version
"Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves"---New American Standard
"Don’t be selfish; don’t try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves"---New Living Translation
"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."---King James Version
"Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves."---English Standard Version
"Doing nothing through faction or through vainglory, but in lowliness of mind each counting other better than himself"---American Standard Version
"nothing by strife, neither by vain glory, but in meekness, deeming each other to be higher than himself"-----Wycliffe New Testament
In addition, this scripture was applied to all Christians, not just those who had no 'title' in the congregation because if that were the case, how were the Christians any different than when they lived under the order of the Pharisees with their "do as we say, not as we do" mentality. And if you actually factor in the Organization's bizarre theory that the bible is written 'primarily' for the "annointed", then I guess this scripture shouldn't be binding on the R&F at all. Yet that is exactly what this article is trying to support:
How can we follow that counsel? One way is by cooperating with the elders in our congregation, following their direction and upholding judicial decisions made by them. (Read Hebrews 13:17.)
Typical 'double standard' and the real meaning of this entire article. What happens when you have a elder, or a group of elders on a power trip who routinely make bad decisions based on either their lack of humility, general knowledge or just being on a power trip? In the first century, you could certainly challenge a decision made by someone....Hell, the average Christians in one congregation wanted to literally kill Paul at one point but I don't recall any of them being disfellowshipped. Yet the average Witness today is not allowed to question anything that anyone 'higher up' says or does. In other words, the WTS is the exact thing that Jesus and his followers preached against.
I can't help but wonder if there are stirrings again with some 'higher ups' in the Organization. The last few weeks has really been emphasizing 'unity', 'getting along with one another' and 'obeying the rules.'
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insearchoftruth
Blondie,
I can not thank you enough for your service here, you have given me the ability to know what to expect the rare times my wife has gone to a meeting plus you have been a great source of helping me to understand 'watchtowerese'.
You have a knack for being able to look through all the bs and tell it like it is, and to help those of us who are not at all familar with the wts, see their writings for what they really are, dumbed down insults.....
Thanks again so very much,
Eric
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Thanks Blondie!
Wow, they actually used something New Testament rather than all the usual OT examples. Of course, it doesn't make a very good fit to the WT agenda. While preaching is the common message with Paul and the JWs, how was Saul/Paul converted? Saul had heard the Christians preach, but didn't convert at the word of humans. He would have heard and perhaps witnessed miracles, yet that wasn't the thing. No, Saul had a personal message from Jesus. His own special shaft of light. Who else has ever gotten that? Why would Saul merit this since he had already turned a deaf ear to the preaching of the very apostles and Stephen?
Now, why hasn't Jesus continued this effective preaching method? All the dubs have to go out and knock on doors and get ignored just like Saul would have done if he were on earth today. Would Jesus send down his special shaft of light if Saul were alive today? Of course not. And why not? Perhaps Jesus is too busy with a matter and has excrement and cannot do his own preaching nowadays. Too bad. Guess the JWs are better off turning in fake hours, just like Jesus is fake leading the JW preaching work.
Q 16. How did Paul show humility and modesty in connection with the issue of circumcision?
Actually, Paul showed himself pretty fu@ked up over foreskins. W e know that in Acts 15 the "Governing Body" concluded, at Paul's coaching, that the congregations were to be informed that the Jewish circumcision tradition was not part of the Christian faith. We know Paul spoke against the need for circumcision, such as Galatians 5:2-3 "See! I, Paul, am telling YOU that if YOU become circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to YOU. 3 Moreover, I bear witness again to every man getting circumcised that he is under obligation to perform the whole Law. "
So, Paul was opposed to circumcision and the GB said 'no need', what was Paul doing at the very start of Acts 16? " So he arrived at Der´be and also at Lys´tra. And, look! a certain disciple was there by the name of Timothy, the son of a believing Jewish woman but of a Greek father, 2 and he was well reported on by the brothers in Lys´tra and I·co´ni·um. 3 Paul expressed the desire for this man to go out with him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews that were in those places, for one and all knew that his father was a Greek." WTF? The first thing Paul does when he meets Timothy is lift up his skirt to check whether he's cut? What, did he parade the boy around town to show all the Jews that Timothy was a snipped Greek/Jew? Why didn't Paul just have Jesus send down that special shaft of light to Timothy's uncut crotch to show the world that uncircumcision was acceptable to Hojovah now?
Weird. I think Paul just wanted to get his hands on young Timothy's goods. Maybe the bOrg will have one of their special fictional dramas acting out the circumcision of Timothy.
Q 17. 18. (a) What feeling did Paul develop toward those in the congregations?
Other than wanting to circumcise some and not circumcise others, he had other mixed feelings toward the brothers. Supposedly he could be loving, but let me share this unforgettable quote of Paul's love for anyone that didn't 100% agree with him: Galatians 5:12 "I wish the men who are trying to overturn YOU would even get themselves emasculated." Yeah, feel the love. "Good Times Paul", that's what they used to call him.
Q 20, 21. What will help us to run the race for life successfully? 20. The life of a Christian can be likened to a long-distance footrace...
"A long-distance footrace" eh? Sounds like the end isn't really that close anymore. No need to sprint, there could still be decades.
Who is proofreading this crap these days?
B the X
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Mary
Billy the ex-Bethelite asked: Who is proofreading this crap these days?
Does this answer your question:
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Mary, The picture is spot on !!
It looks like they've transferred "Chimpy the Proofreader" from Legal to Writing"
HA !
B the X
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darth frosty
Glad to know you'll keep it going B.
I always pop in just to read your opening and closing comment to get the gist.
A lot have migrated to this new forum thats basically a pop-up off shoot of JWD. Hope you stop by and bless us with your presence(it does have the capacity for all of your comments.)
http://jwsupportforum.ulmb.com/index.php#1