607bce or 586/587 bce ? which is it?

by Number1Anarchist 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Number1Anarchist

  Ok this is very difficult for me because i just started studing this question. What i would like to know is what have you decided from your studies and does anyone know the statistics on how many beleive in the 607 dat and how many beleive in the 586/587 date.

  The watchtower likes to say they agree with the 607 because that number is based on the bible when the 586/587 is based on secular history.

  From what ive read so far the mojority thinks it to be 586/587 because most searches ive done give me that date.

  What have you come up with in your research?

  I feel like you almost need to be a scholar to figure this out.

  Thx I really need help with this if you have studied this question.
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  wobble

  It really dosn't matter,as the starting point for the WT twaddle is Daniel Chapter 4,where it mentions 7 times or years affecting the King with madness,the fulfillment is given in that same chapter as literal 7 times(or years) .Nowhere in scripture is the concept of 2,520 years to be found. End of(1914)story.

  Love

  Wobble
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  VM44

  The Watchtower just SAYS 607 agrees with the Bible.

  In fact 587/586 agrees with the Bible as well.

  The Watchtower is FORCING its understanding upon what the Bible says.

  So really what they should say is that 607 agrees with what The Watchtower teaches, but that dosn't sound as good as saying the year "agrees with the Bible"

  What The Watchtower is trying to do is come up with a "False Conflict" in order to make people choose their year, 607, over the year 587.

  There is in reality no conflict at all.

  The Watchtower has a long history of using conflict or persecution as a way to say they are the true religion.
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  Number1Anarchist

  Exactly thx for the response. I can tell you this that i never did understand why it was of any importance at all and most the time just laid down and accepted it. All thos years i never researched it and took there word for it.

  Now that i'm asking questions there calling me an apostate for questioning the society. WTF !

  I said to the brother am i in the twilight zone!

  I feel like i want to kick some JW Ass to releive my Rage!
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  besty

  The most common response will be 607 agrees with Biblical chronology whereas 587 is from 'secular' chronology.

  What these brainwashed idiots do not grasp is that there is no such thing as 'Biblical' chronology. The Bible doesn't have absolute dates in it anywhere. The dating system that 587 and 607 are part of is secular by definition.

  If you want to challenge a JW suggest to them that you will prove 587 is the corrrect date by only using WTS literature if they will accept their challenge to prove 607 not using WTS literature.

  The trick is that you can do it, whereas they can't. Should baffle them into taking a look at the WTS literature you are going to provide them with....

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/55372/1.ashx
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  Number1Anarchist

  Thx besty for the reference.

  Now i know these numbers are based on secular history but you know how the society is.

  Any chance they get they discredit or call it apostasy. I'm learning that one from experience

  I challenged my wife on the number and i know her she won't do a damn thing to find out!

  Nothing better than being called an aostate by your wife.

  I'm all over this and appreciate all your help. thx
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  VM44

  Alleymom's KISS method of showing 587 is very good.

  You might want to print that out and study it.

  A good website that also has correspondence with The Watchtower concerning this topic (for all the good it did) is:

  http://www.607v587.com/

  And the definitive reference work on the topic of the Gentile Times is the book:

  The Gentile Times Reconsidered
  by Carl O. Jonsson

  http://www.amazon.com/Gentile-Times-Reconsidered-Carl-Jonsson/dp/0914675079/

  Mr Jonsson soon discovered that the reason that The Watchtower says "607" is the true date is because they say so!

  Anyone who has proof otherwise will be disfellowshipped!
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  Number1Anarchist

  Vm44, nice one

  Thx for the references again.

  Thats what i'm hearing so far is that we say it's 607bce and because you are baptized you cannot question it.

  Hahahah i don't get that and never will.

  Under threat of difelloshipping you cannot question the socity.lol

  I don't know any brothers and sister and never depended on them for anything.

  What i was going to say is that you have been more helpful to me when the elders are only using threats.

  If it's the truth why all the paranoia? we know the answer to that one.

  Thx everyone
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  digderidoo

  Hi number1anarchist

  First of all i'd like to say welcome, i don't think i have come across you before.

  For me this is one thing that made me question every other doctrine the JW's came up with. I like you just accepted the 607 date without question.

  It will take you time to research it properly. There is much info out there.

  Basically JW's get 607BCE by counting backwards the 70 year Jewish captivity from 537BCE when they say Cyrus announced his decree. This is the only way they get to 607BCE.

  So what you have to ask yourself first if you were to accept the 607 date, is whether the 537 date for Cyrus releasing the Jews is correct?

  Jw's and scolars agree that Babylon was conquered in 539BCE, one of the sources for this is Ptolemy's Canon. However they then go on to estimate that it took 18 months or so for Cyrus to release the Jews bringing us to 537BCE date.

  So therefore if the 537 date is based on an estimation, how sure can a JW be that 607 is the correct date? It could have been 538BCE or 536BCE.

  There is much info out there as to how secular historians arrive at 587/6 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem. There is also much out there how this can harmonise with the 70 year biblical prophecy too. One of them being that the rebuilding of Jerusalems temple was completed in 516BCE, another also being that the Babylonian Empire took hold with the defeat of the Assyrians in 609BCE and the end of the empire being 539BCE, therefore a 70 year rule. This however is something that you need to research as there is far too much information to digest in one thread.

  It is a rewarding thing to do to look into this. But first of all it would be good to look at how JW's arrive at 607BCE, so to do that you need to look at the pivotal date of 537BCE. Ask any JW how they arrive at 537, you will find it is based on if's and but's.

  Feel free to PM if you would like links on any info. There are many people here who have researched this thoroughly, it was well worth the effort in my case.

  Paul
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  Mr. Majestic

  I can hear 'Scholar' walking down the corridors of JWD. He ain’t guna be happy…

  You lot had better be ready for him and his ‘celebrated WT scholars’…..