Evolution-bias(exposed)

by moman 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  Seeker4

  Moman,

  I think it was Jan who made pretty clear the DNA proof of the common ancestry of men and apes. I know that some said in that thread that they could come up with other explanations for that information. But ideas and explanations that are simply pulled out of thin air are really meaningless without any corroborating evidence.

  I was reminded of a couple of discussions I had with the elders before leaving the Witnesses. I told them about the evidence that shows without question that a worldwide flood 4000 years ago was an impossiblity. They simply said, in typical Watchtower fashion, that they could give other explanations for this evidence, ones that jived with their beliefs. I told them that their thinking made no sense - that coming up with hypothetical "well this could have happened" with no evidence was essentially worthless speculation.

  If evolution has no basis in fact, try to find a reputable university anywhere in the world where the sciences are taught without reference to evolution. Evolution is simply an accepted scientific fact in labs the world over - whether for education or business or research. And again - it has nothing to do with a belief in a creator.

  I happen not to believe in a God. I would love to be proven wrong. The one thing I am certain of is that if there is a God, he's nothing like the mythological Jehovah I worshipped for 35 years of my life. I just hope if there is a god out there, he/she/it has a goddamn good explanation for things, cause the one's I've heard so far sure suck!!

  S4
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  willy_think

  hello moman,
  

  Abaddon,When someone takes a position & then insults any one that doesn't agree with them, I question their objectivity, thats all.

  you see the thing is there is NO debate about "evolution". In fact evolution can now be better understood by the term "jenetic drift" (random mutation of DNA following natural laws). this drift can be measured and calculated.
  
  as to the insults.........sometimes you need to stand up and yell "open your eyes!!"
  if you were to show someone the multiplication of 5*5, showing plainly and smply 5 groups of 5 objects and the sum of 25 by counting the 25 objects. and that person tells you that his/her dad said 5*5 was 10 so 10 is the answer. well you show him/her again, and again you get the same reply of "10 because dady said so". and again and again at some point you get frustrated and give up trying to explain. then you might tell that person off becuse you know he will not even look at the problem since the answer is painfully obvious.

  i never use the term "evolution" anymore "jenetic drift" is what is happening to every life form on the planet.

  willy think: thread killer
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  Amazing

  Hi Moman: It is unfortunate that some who accept evolution come across as arrogant, as this tends to defeat their attempt to present their point of view.

  Evolution, as a science, is proven, but still also called 'theory', and because of this, many untrained pro-creationists mistakenly debate evolution. They treat evolution as though the science itself necessitates abandonment of God.

  Gravity and Electro-magnetics are also 'Theories' but they are also factually proven to exist. In science, the underlying basis of a specific science will be labeled 'theory' while the body of knowledge and application is well established fact. Evolution has been developed to the point of being in this type of category.

  I personally accept evolution as a proven and legitimate science of how development - and the development of all lifeforms and species on this planet. However, I still believe in God, and believe that he set the process of evolution in motion.

  Science itself is not about what we believe, (Beliefs fall into the philospohical category) but rather, science is about demonstrated facts and how to apply these in a useful way to our existence. Science of evolution, as any other science, does not require us to adopt or abandon any personal belief system. Science is about our knowledge of our physical worlds, and follows rigorous rules to establish bonafide understand, but still alloows for development of the body of knowledge as it progresses.

  Religion is anyone's guesswork and involves extreme risk in accepting the views and teachings of any system. religion can be good, or at least benign, and can become deadly and extremely illogical. Science, on the otherhand, in and of itself does not involve emotional and philospohical values, and cannot cause anything but greater understanding. When science is abused, it is always about some political, social, religious, or philospohical issues held by those who so misuse it. The men who flew the jets into the WTC on 9-11 used their knowledge of science of flying to an evil end because of a very misguided version of Islam they adopted. Christians and Jews and others have done serious wrongs in the name of religion, as have Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Jan and others who seem arrogant, and at times have been arrogant, are attempting to get mostly YEC's (Young Earth Creationsists) to stop lying and misrepresenting, and abusing science in their attempt to disprove evolution. And it is when we see this two in debate that what seems like arrogance, is mostly frustration and a refusal to let YEC's get by with fraud. Unfortunately, some who are not so braindead as YEC's get caught in the frey, and find that those who strongly promote evolution come across as arrogant. I do accept that at times poor judgement has been used by individuals like Jan in making a distinction between sincere knowledge seekers and YEC's.

  Hope all that above helps some. - Amazing
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  Commie Chris

  I have no bias. I would love to be convinced that the variety of life on this planet was created by a god rather than through the forces of evolution, and that humans did not evolve from other life forms. When I was a J-W I studied both evolution and the Biblical creationist theories. If anything, I was biased towards wanting to believe in creation and wanting to be convinced that evolution was just another unproven theory. But I kept an open mind and continued studying, against the wishes of the anti-intellectual elders. Eventually I came to the conclusion that "creationism" is pseudo-scientific mythology. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. The worst thing about this whole "debate" is the rank dishonesty of most of the peddlers of "creation science". I found numerous cases of them (including the WT) falsifying evidence, and desceptively mis-quoting and selectively quoting from authors of scientific papers. Science has no need to resort to such tactics. "Creationism" is not science.