Class Action Lawsuit

by mikepence 54 Replies latest jw friends

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    Yardif,

    Subvert, according to Websters definition 2)to pervert or corrupt by undermining of morals, allegiance or faith.
    I was refering to the allegiance part. Do you think that JWs would tell anyone that they shouldn't give their allegiance to the 'Flag of the United States of America and the Rebublic for which it stands'? The JW's subvert the Gov. 1 person at a time when they teach them that they do not owe their allegience to this great nation. They are taught that this government is corrupt and on the verge of collapse because man cannot rule themselves. I have even heard at an assembly that this democratic government is the most disgusting kind because every citizen who votes is actually acting as a ruler.

    OK. That is what I meant by subversive. If you want to go on about it all day then maybe we can start another thread.

    The other thing I wanted to adress was whether or not the Society cares about public opinion and courts of the land.

    What about the whole donation arrangement? Why did this become and issue right after the supreme court ruled that some televanglist had pay sales taxes on the books he sold? We were never told that in other countries it's business as usual(they don't use the donation arrangement) because they don't have to worry about the sales tax problem.

    Mr Moe,

    I agree that I learned a lot from being a witness but I would disagree that it is worth fighting for. I have some family that I deeply care about who are suffering needlessly. I did not make the choice to be a witness. I didn't recognize how wrong they were for 36 yrs. How could I expect my little sister to somehow be responsible for the way she is taught? I want to help others get out or at least have that choice. It has been shown that the only thing that corporations understand is the almighty dollar. Slap a civil lawsuit on a big corporation and look how long it takes them to make the needed changes.

    TimB

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    T-double-Y--D-double-Y

    Okay, so you were “referring to the allegiance part”. What you’re talking about then rests solely upon the argument of whether or not Jehovah’s Witnesses have a correct interpretation of the Bible on this issue. Which they do, whether you agree with that or not … and obviously you don’t.

    Do you think that JWs would tell anyone that they shouldn't give their allegiance to the 'Flag of the United States of America and the Rebublic for which it stands'?
    I not only “think” that JWs would NOT “tell” other people that they shouldn’t give their allegiance to the Flag etc., but I KNOW they wouldn’t. We don’t “TELL” people what they do in this regard. It’s a personal decision that each person makes, based upon what they’ve learned from the Bible on the subject. However, if the time should come when a person such as YOU decide that they no longer want to be at unity with the rest of the organization on this issue, then “bye-bye” … you’re on you own and “outta here”. And rightly so!

    The JW's subvert the Gov. 1 person at a time when they teach them that they do not owe their allegience to this great nation.
    Wrong, Pal! My O my, do you have a knack for stretching matters completely out of shape! "One person at a time" is taught what the Bible ITSELF has to say on the issue of “allegiance”, and they each decide for THEMSELVES that this surely is in conformity with what the BIBLE teaches. You’ve got more than one loose screw, Tyydyy.

    They are taught that this government is corrupt and on the verge of collapse because man cannot rule themselves.
    Well lookie here who’s got it ALL figured out! No, you’re wrong again, “they” are taught that man’s ENTIRE worldly system was corrupted from the beginning, and that’s why mankind needs the rulership called “God’s Kingdom”. They are taught that man’s rule got it’s start when man’s first father decided he didn’t need to be subject to God’s rule. They are taught that ever since then the world has never been under God’s rule, with the exception of the Kingdom of Israel of course, a nation chosen by God himself. They are shown how the Scriptures THEMSELVES verify all that. YOU’RE ARGUMENT IS WITH THE BIBLE ITSELF! Obviously, you’re too dense to see that though. As to your claim that the WTS teaches that the governments are on the verge of collapse, that’s stretching it too. People are shown how that the Bible ITSELF promised to replace man’s rule with a heavenly government that can properly do the job.

    So the real issue is STILL whether or not the Bible ITSELF shows such things to be the case. That’s where your problem really lies. Tuff, is all I have to say to you if you’re unwilling and refuse to see and accept what the Bible ITSELF teaches.

    I have even heard at an assembly that this democratic government is the most disgusting kind because every citizen who votes is actually acting as a ruler.
    Listening through YOUR ears, I can believe that was said. Are you forgetting though that there’s not an assembly that goes by but what bunches of people make tape recordings of what was said? What difference would it make whether the “ruler” is a single person or many persons, it’s all man’s rule is it not? Man’s rule is man’s rule. I seriously question whether you heard such a thing. It’s more likely that, given YOUR state of mind, you read such a thing into what was said.

    Yadirf

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    Ok Yadirf,

    I can see that you just want to get into some kind of name calling. I will not sink to your level. I can see how true christians react to differing views.

    I not only “think” that JWs would NOT “tell” other people that they shouldn’t give their allegiance to the Flag etc., but I KNOW they wouldn’t. We don’t “TELL” people what they do in this regard. It’s a personal decision that each person makes, based upon what they’ve learned from the Bible on the subject. However, if the time should come when a person such as YOU decide that they no longer want to be at unity with the rest of the organization on this issue, then “bye-bye” … you’re on you own and “outta here”. And rightly so!
    What you just said Yadirf, is that either you refuse to salute the flag or you can't be a JW. I think that is what I said also.
    I'm not going to argue whether or not that's what the bible teaches because I don't care what the bible teaches. That is a right that comes with being a US citizen. I don't think that the US gov. cares what the bible teaches either so that doesn't get you off the hook. The JWs are the only religion that I know of that does not allow it's members to give allegiance to this country.

    Well lookie here who’s got it ALL figured out! No, you’re wrong again, “they” are taught that man’s ENTIRE worldly system was corrupted from the beginning
    Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "ENTIRE worldly system" include the US or UK or any other country?

    My arguement is not with the bible itself. My arguement is with an organization that chooses to interpret a manmade book. Their interpretations say that all manmade governments are bad and will be destroyed. They teach that you should not defend the very country that gives you the right to believe what you want. My only problem with the JW religion is that they will not allow anyone to leave without serious repercussions in their family life.

    TimB

  • LDH
    LDH

    Somebody's off his meds......

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf
    I can see that you just want to get into some kind of name calling. I will not sink to your level. I can see how true christians react to differing views.

    I thought you just swore that you wouldn’t sink to a level of “name calling”. Didn’t you just bash me as claiming to be a "true" christian.

    What you just said Yadirf, is that either you refuse to salute the flag or you can't be a JW. I think that is what I said also.
    There’s absolutely NO comparison between what I said and what you earlier said. You implied that the WTS “tells” others that they can’t pay allegiance to the Flag. There’s a world of difference in your version and the way it truly is, the way I described it. The WTS doesn’t dictate to people that they have to accept the Bible, or accept it's interpretation of the Bible. The WTS does however reject those who later decide that they prefer to reject the Bible. And as for those who later determine that they can't agree with the WTS on every point, unless such ones can do so without insisting on causing a stir then they are rejected as well. You’re all mixed up, and you wouldn’t last a minute in a court of law that’s convened to settle our dispute.

    I'm not going to argue whether or not that's what the bible teaches because I don't care what the bible teaches.
    And that’s one reason that you’re in no position to judge Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding their stand of neutrality. It’s also a good reason for you not to any longer be in association with those who DO care what the Bible teaches, namely JWs.

    That [studying the Bible] is a right that comes with being a US citizen.
    You indeed are stupid, aren’t you. And you wonder WHY I place labels on you and others of your persuasion and thinking. And I haven’t ‘called you names’, as you’ve asserted up above. I’ve placed a proper label of identification on you, yes. Not you, Mr. Bridges, nor the US Government has given ME the right to have, study, and believe the Bible, and be a religious person. So you just step down off your high horse and stop claiming to have done so. To take credit for what I am endowed by my Creator to enjoy is the same as saying that you have the right to take it away … since if I have it by the permission of the Government then if it decides to withdraw its permission I then won’t have it because I didn’t have a right to it. I’ve heard enough of that SHIT, even before now.

    I don't think that the US gov. cares what the bible teaches either so that doesn't get you off the hook.
    Me? On the hook? I’m on no hook, except in your wild imagination. And it’s already been established just how much of an imagination that you have.

    But as regards the question of whether the US Government cares what the Bible teaches, for the most part I’ll have to agree with you because it’s afterall only a secular institution. However, there are always some officials in the Government who are persuaded that the Bible is important. Some people even call this a “Christian country”. Are you so naïve to think that the US Government is completely unaware of the beliefs of JWs in this regard. For crying out loud man, the WTS has fought this issue even up to the highest court in the land … the Supreme Court of the United States of America. So it’s “done been there, done that, and got the tee shirt” for the WTS on the issue of the flag salute and the paying of allegiance etc. So you want to retrace those footsteps do you? GO RIGHT AHEAD AND WASTE YOUR LIFE DOING SO.

    Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "ENTIRE worldly system" include the US or UK or any other country?
    Of course it does, but you missed the main point of me having said what I did. You had charged the WTS as having done something wrong by telling a Bible truth that man’s system must go, to be replaced by the rulership of God’s Kingdom. For that reason I said: “[The WTS teaches people] that man’s ENTIRE worldly system was corrupted from the beginning, and that’s why mankind needs the rulership called ‘God’s Kingdom’. They are taught that man’s rule got it’s start when man’s first father decided he didn’t need to be subject to God’s rule. They are taught that ever since then the world has never been under God’s rule, with the exception of the Kingdom of Israel of course, a nation chosen by God himself. They are shown how the Scriptures THEMSELVES verify all that. YOU’RE ARGUMENT IS WITH THE BIBLE ITSELF!”

    My arguement is not with the bible itself.
    Of course your argument is with the Bible! Because you’ve as good as said that you think that it’s TRASH. How did you do that? You said: “I don't care what the bible teaches.”

    My arguement is with an organization that chooses to interpret a manmade book.
    In YOUR opinion it’s a “manmade book”. But the WTS takes it not to be anything other than having been inspired of God. I suppose that because YOU attribute it to having been manmade then everyone else should bow to your opinion and do so likewise, huh? Apparently so!

    Their interpretations say that all manmade governments are bad and will be destroyed.
    The WTS tells it just as the Bible shows it is. But YOU don’t appreciate the Bible and so nobody should rightly expect you to be able to respect anyone’s interpretation of it.

    They teach that you should not defend the very country that gives you the right to believe what you want.
    Now there you go again, taking credit for what the Creator himself has granted each and every living human to have. Do you rightly expect me or anyone else to buy into that kind of reasoning? I suppose you think that the material food I eat comes from the farmers too, right? You think, that I haven’t the right to eat without first accrediting the farmer as being the provider. Gasp! Do you imagine that you could get EVEN A FARMER to accept such praise. Yeah there may be a few that would be so vain, but any farmer who believes in God will not do so.

    My only problem with the JW religion is that they will not allow anyone to leave without serious repercussions in their family life.
    No! That’s NOT you’re only problem. Saying that it is contradicts everything else you’ve said in the exchanges between you and I.

    Yes, agreed, there are serious repercussions. To step inside the door of Christianity is a serious matter. To step back outside is an even more serious matter. No one loves an incorrigible thief. All but other thieves want no contact with them. Get it? A person who rejects the Bible has rejected righteousness. Who wants contact with a person who has no love of righteousness, except another person of the same sort.

    You really need to reconsider the course you’re on, T-double-Y--D-double-Y.

    Yadirf

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    I can't believe that at one time you claimed that you were probably old enough to be my father. How old are you, boy? 19? 20?

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Siegswife,

    Yadirf aka Friday is in his sixties, a retired mailman with a plaque on his wall signed by the Postmaster General.

    He used to be one of Jehovah's witnesses. He stopped going in the door to door work in the early to mid 1970's...he claims to have attended some meeting's since that time, but who know's?

    So any of you that waste time even condsidering Yadorf's comments as serious, or even up to date with current Jw doctrine, better ask him if what I say is true? I will give him credit, he will not deny what I have just said. Maybe he will be picky about the details, but he will confess.

    Friday is a wannabe JW, but has niether the fortitude nor will, to carry out the requirements of brotherhood. So he likes to come here with his real brother's and sister's..Apostates...and cause trouble.

    He is a nasty little man, with a yapping puppy...who loves to bite people on the ankels.

    But that's all he amounts to, nothing more than an a tired old postman, who wishes he had been a JW. Just couldn't carry the Wt bag on Saturday's and Sunday's...when his whole life was delivery of 3rd class mail Monday-Friday!

    DannyBear

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Siegswife

    Well let's see ... that would make you about 4 months old, wouldn't it?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    DannyBear (aka DannyBoy)

    My puppy has never bitten anybody on the ankle in his entire life I would have you know! Now, on the BUTT ... that's a different matter.

    Since you believe that I'd lie about other things, DB, then what makes you think I wouldn't lie about my age? Am I really in my "sixties"?

    Oh, I came back to edit because I forgot to ask you DannyBear: Are you STILL an atheist?

    Yadirf (aka Friday)

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    (((Well let's see ... that would make you about 4 months old, wouldn't it?)))

    LOL I wish...no, then again, I don't.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Yadirf,

    I knew I wouldn't get every detail right!

    Actually I should never have brought up your puppy, I got so sick of hearing about him (kinda like Kathy Lee's kids), shame on me for bringing the little BUTT biter up!

    BearButt

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