Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY

by jwfacts 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  reniaa

  also you put this discussion is on trinity but include there use of jehovahs name, technically they just copied kingjames official bible which was one of first to put jehovahs name back after jews removed it.

  Is something right because at some time in the past men decided a name shouldn't be spoken? i guess we are lucky christians didn't decide jesus's name was to sacred to say ^^ or we might be having scripture saying 'lord says to lord i am your lord and my name is lord and you should love lord your lord with your whole lord.

  sometimes is isn't just a matter of over analising but also of common sense on what to believe.
• 

  Jringe01

  John 5:23 is considered one of the strongest statements that Jesus is God by commentaries such as Burton, Coughman's and John Calvin, because of the implication that honor should be to the same degree. This corresponds to the preceeding verse in John 5:18 that "On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God."

  This only proves that is what the Jews thought he was doing, not that he was actually doing it.

  If There is a Trinity then answer these questions:

  God told Moses that "No man may see me and yet live" yet how many thousands saw Jesus and DID live??? If Jesus was God of the OT then that would imply he transformed himself into a lesser being in order to walk the earth for how else could you contain all that power, energy, knowledge and greatness that is God? No being who has power, knowledge, education and stature is willingly going to make him or her self into a person with less power, knowledge, education and stature

  So Jesus was praying to himself in the garden?

  The bible also says that no structure of man could contain God...yet Jesus was contained within many many man made structures in his time. How could something as small and puny as a house be expected to contain the greatness of God? It cannot

  Jesus died and went to hell for 3 days...no human has the ability to kill God or any god unless we ourselves have created them. If Jesus is God then you are saying that humans killed their creator. If that's the case then how can he be a true god?

  I don't for one minute believe that there is a Trinity. Certainly the Jews (and Muslims for that matter) don't believe in it, and didn't at the time either. I accept the arguement that if the early Christians were refering to a trinity type arrangement that it would have been a lot harder to attract Jews to it because it's not an obvious extention of their religion which is what Chirstianity is supposed to be...the final result of the Jewish religion, the end of the path.
• 

  Dogpatch

  I'm impressed!

  Randy
• 

  JosephMalik

  I just wonder how important doctrine is when it comes to Christian belief.

  Pahpa,

  Good question. We were not instructed to teach it anywhere were we? It is not a central theme for our ministry. And you are correct in saying that our deeds matter. This is a truth for everyone to take seriously, Christian or not, it is the basis for entry into the Kingdom we preach. Yet there are some very hard verses more general like the ones in Jude that frankly scare the pants off me if they should every be applied. The doctrine is therefore important as all doctrine intended for our enlightenment is. But it is also a distraction since preaching the Kingdom is our primary task and few even know what this Kingdom is, how it will function, where it will be, how anyone gains entry into it and what they will do in it.

  Joseph
• 

  yknot

  Paul your presentation of the textual dishonesty is well presented.

  I even learn a new word!
• 

  Doug Mason

  The best way to defend a poor position is to attack, which is exactly what the WTS does. The WTS does not explain its own "theology" (used in its proper sense) but they attack others.

  What are their essential attributes of deity? What is their description of Jesus' preincarnate "nature"? Did he lose that nature when he became human? Did he revert to his prior nature following his resurrection? In what way are the attributes of Jesus' "a god" nature less than that of the father's? How can a son's nature be different from that of his father's? (A human father has a human child.)

  Jesus Christ self-possesses eternal life, meaning the essential life of the Eternal One. The only way we can share in eternal life is to be "in the Son", because that Life is in the Son, who is true God.

  God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. … W e are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:9-12, 20, NIV)

  The WTS appears to define their theology in terms of power and position, whereas the Trinitarian defines "god" in terms of quality and in the essential attributes of nature (divine, angelic, human and animal).

  Doug
• 

  insearchoftruth

  That is such a true statement about the WT trying to defend himself by attacking others.....if the only way one tries to make oneself look good is by making negative statements about others, how good are they really.
• 

  jwfacts

  Some interesting comments.

  I had doubts for a long time, but as with Leo, it was the dishonesty I found when researching the Trinity and Earthquakes that made me finally make the stand that I just cannot bear to enter a Kingdom Hall again and appear to support such beliefs.

  Pahpa, I have come to think that doctrine is not important. Nowhere does the Bible contain clear outlines of doctrine. The most destructive religions are those where the leaders attempt to claim they have some special ability to decode the hidden doctrine of the Bible and so must be followed without question.

  Reniaa, I have found that most people do not know the intricacies of the Trinity, nor do they care. I was explaining the Witness stance once to my boss and he said, but they (father/son/spirit) are different, and they are the same. That is the great wonder of God. That is why I no longer think it matters how people understand God. The Bible is certainly not clear about the relationship of Father and Son, and we as humans have no logical ability to understand the spirit dimension at any rate. So to me tolerance of others understanding is more important.

  Regarding the word Jehovah - you seem to have missed the point. The word Jehovah appears in the Old Testament, but never appeared in the New Testament. By dishonesly inserting the word Jehovah into the New Testament the NWT makes it very difficult to grasp the meaning the writers were attempting to convey.

  Jringe01, I was quite upfront at the beginning of the document that my intention was not to support one teaching over the other, but rather to highlight Watchtower tactics. There are difficult questions for each point of view - that is why there is ongoing debate on the subject. Maybe you could answer the question on how the Apostles could regard Jesus as G(g)od and not be breaking the law to have no other god other than Jehovah.

  If you are uncomfortable with the Trinity doctrine that is your right and I respect that. But either way, I won't be promoting an organisation that uses underhanded methods to deceive its followers.
• 

  Mary

  While I do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, I found the material presented above very well researched and presented. It, unfortunately, is yet another example of the WTS taking things out of context to fit whatever doctrine they're trying to promote. I just finished reading: Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood and the Tort of Misrepresentation and they did the same damn thing there.
• 

  smiddy

  Very interesting,....just another example of wtb&ts deception of what trinitarians ( and others) actually beleive....Yet this subject and comments raised ,highlights to me the complexity of the bible itself. I was taught that the bible was meant for the "average" person,it was not that hard to understand..,and it interpreted itself, Nothing is more further from the truth.Does not the bible say "Do not put your trust in earthling man whom no salvation belongs?"Ps.146:3 Yet to understand the bible`s intricasies,ambiguities,double-tripple-whammie-meanings,we have to rely on "man" to explain to us what the God of the bible,who is the supreme intelligence of the universe and creator of all ,couldn`t dictate (to a man) in plain english(hebrew-aramaic or Koine) what he simply meant.I`ll gaurantee that the average jw would not have a clue about the differences in trinitararian beleifs.

  smiddy