Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY

by jwfacts 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    It DOES matter if the WTS/GB is dishonest! If dishonesty does not matter, then how may the WTS point a finger at any other belief system?

    If they are so blatantly dishonest when they cite others, such as on the nature of God, Blood, Chronology, etc., etc., then how do they behave when they are operating in areas that are subjective and exegetical?

    My understanding of the nature of God can be downloaded at: http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=5f4ded73fd6f5748dfc1b0526faa6c1b

    (When you go to that site, you have to wait for about 25 seconds before the "download now" button appearsa at the bottom of the page.)

    Doug

  • Pahpa
    Pahpa

    JM/JWFACTS

    The Bible wasn't written as a definitive text book on doctrine. Therefore, people can pick and choose various texts out of the Bible to "prove" their own personal preferences. Each person is left with his own opinion of what is right and wrong. As you noted, the one clear message a Christian is encouraged to promulgate is God's Kingdom. And the Bible is quite precise in defining the Christian way of life. Someone once said that the most important teaching in the Bible is love. And all else is only commentary.

    Pahpa

  • Jringe01
    Jringe01

    Jringe01, I was quite upfront at the beginning of the document that my intention was not to support one teaching over the other, but rather to highlight Watchtower tactics. There are difficult questions for each point of view - that is why there is ongoing debate on the subject. Maybe you could answer the question on how the Apostles could regard Jesus as G(g)od and not be breaking the law to have no other god other than Jehovah.

    If you are uncomfortable with the Trinity doctrine that is your right and I respect that. But either way, I won't be promoting an organisation that uses underhanded methods to deceive its followers.

    How do we honestly know that the early Chrtistians viewed Jesus as God? How do we know that it wasn't the early Church (post apostles) that didn't make the mistake of thinking Jesus was God. Truth be told since we can't ask them we really don't know for certain exactly what their views were. All that we have to go on are writings that are so old and so copied that I don't believe we can reasonably expect a definitive statement from them.

    I'm not suggesting anyone promote an organization that would use underhanded tactics to decieve people but the fact is, all arguing about wording aside, I did raise some very important issues that anyone (JW or not, religious or not) considering the Trinity would do well to consider. In fact I think that in the debate over the Trinity people get caught up in the wording of various scripturtes to the point where it becomes a big complicated debate and forget there are bigger questions to be answered, questions that are more relevant to the topic that whether or not a certain word should be here, there or anywhere.

    Debates over wording are useless, been there, done that and it solves nothing.

  • Roddy
    Roddy

    Thanks for the info, JWFacts.

    I've done my own research on the Trinity and I do find the Trinity to be an unscriptural doctrine. However, having said that, I've also found the approach that the WTS takes to formulate its claims and rebuttals on the Trinity to be quite substandard to accepted practice. In other words, they are guilty of taking statements out of context. But they don't have to use deceptive practices in order to debunk the Trinity unless deceptive practices are the norm in their journalism. (That's another topic.)

    Anyway. I would have excused this somewhat if this was a the work of a junior high school student. I would expect higher standards from an organization who dispises college but not college graduates.

    My gut feeling is that what college graduates they do get are placed in their legal department rather than their writing department. The legal department is where the "brains" of the organization really reside - if you get my meaning.

  • Roddy
    Roddy
    John 5:23 is considered one of the strongest statements that Jesus is God by commentaries such as Burton, Coughman's and John Calvin, because of the implication that honor should be to the same degree. This corresponds to the preceeding verse in John 5:18 that "On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God."

    This only proves that is what the Jews thought he was doing, not that he was actually doing it.

    If There is a Trinity then answer these questions:

    God told Moses that "No man may see me and yet live" yet how many thousands saw Jesus and DID live??? If Jesus was God of the OT then that would imply he transformed himself into a lesser being in order to walk the earth for how else could you contain all that power, energy, knowledge and greatness that is God? No being who has power, knowledge, education and stature is willingly going to make him or her self into a person with less power, knowledge, education and stature

    So Jesus was praying to himself in the garden?

    The bible also says that no structure of man could contain God...yet Jesus was contained within many many man made structures in his time. How could something as small and puny as a house be expected to contain the greatness of God? It cannot

    Jesus died and went to hell for 3 days...no human has the ability to kill God or any god unless we ourselves have created them. If Jesus is God then you are saying that humans killed their creator. If that's the case then how can he be a true god?

    I don't for one minute believe that there is a Trinity. Certainly the Jews (and Muslims for that matter) don't believe in it, and didn't at the time either. I accept the arguement that if the early Christians were refering to a trinity type arrangement that it would have been a lot harder to attract Jews to it because it's not an obvious extention of their religion which is what Chirstianity is supposed to be...the final result of the Jewish religion, the end of the path.

    Agreed.

    I think it is another topic regarding the WTS standards, or lack of, when it comes to truth and accuracy in journalism. How the WTS tries to debunk the Trinity is amaturish at best. Surprizing for an organization that has been publishing for over a hundred years.

    The Trinity falls flat on its face when Biblical facts are brought to bear.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    Thanks for the information JWFacts...

    I realize that you are not promulgating the doctrine, as some are crticizing for just that. But like Leo, I was incensed when I first read Signs of the Last Days and discovered how the WTS has misquoted everything to suit their agenda. This is just one more example of WTS selective cherry-pickin...

    Your site was instrumental in my deprogramming. For that I am eternally grateful (although I don't believe in eternal life, lol).

    Lance

  • serendipity
    serendipity

    Hi JWfacts, Very thorough - thanks for your work on this! I hope the book "Jesus and Yahweh" by Harold Bloom will shed light on this topic. It's in my stack to read.

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    I think it's safe to say that the notion of the trinity is one that JWs and exJWs alike find difficult to reconcile with their studies in the scriptures, both within and certainly during the early days outside the Org. I'm doing my best to come to terms with the WTS dishonesty of doctrine.

    What I've quickly realised is that it's easier to find texts 'proving' the trinity than it is to find texts proving the 144,000 is a literal number of kings and priests in heaven.

    Paul, as usual, deserves commendation for his research and thoroughness in exposing the WTS's on-going intellectual and spiritual dishonesty.

    Thanks, Paul.

  • runningonfaith
    runningonfaith

    Great stuff jwfacts,i've just added your web site to my favored,thanks for taking the time to reserch and post all this info.

  • 2112
    2112

    Very nice job JWFacts, presented extreemely well - Thanks

    Jringe01 - As has been said this was a presentation/discussion of the WT deception in presenting their material, and the Trinity was just the example JWFacts used to illustrate it. However your first post quoted some scriptures, yet your second post in responce to someone said we don't know what the writers were really thinking so we can't really determine what they meant. How do the two posts follow each other?

    Not trying to argue but just want to understand.

    Thanks

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