"The Bible Says... The Bible Says..."

by AGuest 45 Replies latest jw friends

BabaYaga

Reniaa... I know that responding to you is a lost cause, yet I am tempted to speak.

First of all, the bible is NOT the only source of information on Jesus. The lost scrolls, the Nag Hammadi, and several other writings which were hidden as the keepers of those scrolls were brutally murdered by the Catholic rampage on "heretics", those who still believed valid scrolls besides those scrolls the Pope declared "holy".

Secondly, I am not convinced that Jesus existed, and for me, that does not matter. I know that is too "out there" for you and would result in more "circular" arguments, so I will leave it at that.

It matters not to me or anyone else that you "do not buy" into the "higher consciousness nonsense." The fact is that many remote and "primative" tribes have a higher morality than a whole lot of Christians I have known in my lifetime.

I personally do not take the "nicey" parts of the bible and ignore the rest... I see it for what it is... a jumbled and frightened history written many decades after the events written about happened... many times by folks who were not even there. It was then edited harshly by a powerful man who needed for everything to be Patriarchal enough to pass inspection, and was only concerned with the mandate that all of the confused hordes must go through HIM, a MAN, to receive the glory of (G)od. That is a lie. One needs neither a man nor the bible to communicate with god. That is the way it is.

Love to you, Reniaa... I hope you find your peace someday.
Baba.
OUTLAW

Aguest is not ignoring the Bible.....She not so simply states(LOL!!)..That the rules of the Bible..No longer applied after the arrival of Jesus..The words of Jesus are now the new rules,that govern (Or should govern)Christians.....Jesus healed people on the sabbath..He pissed a lot of people off!......Jesus personally broke the old rules!............."Ironic"..A Non-Christian,teaching Christians,about the rules they should be following..If they truly want to be Christians..LOL!!!!.....................OUTLAW
AGuest

are those who listen to voices in their head, believing them to be the voice of God.
Well, finally, something you and I agree on, dear FD. Praise Jah... the voices I hear are not in my head.
Peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

If the bible is our only source of info on jesus (and it is)
Actually, it isn't. I ask you, what "Bible" did Moses refer to in order to know the Christ? And, yet, the Bible says that he "esteemed the reproach 'of the Christ' as riches GREATER than the treasures of Egypt...". What "Christ"? What Bible told Abel about Christ? Noah? Abraham? What "Bible" told the Prophets about Christ? David?
Dear one, the HOLY SPIRIT is the source of info on my Lord. Like the Law, the Bible... is only a TUTOR. It is NOT the Christ himself. ANd if one truly wants to KNOW another... one needs to go to that one... not simply read about that one. And so, with regard to Christ, it is HE himself, the Holy Spirit, CHRIST, who teaches us about himself. Thus, I did not learn about my Lord through the Bible - I learned about him... from him. HE came to me... and revealed himself to me. I, me, Shelby, use the Bible (which, I must admit, I truly do NOT like to do!)... because of those who still need that "source" (which is quite infortunate, because it is one of the MAIN methods used to mislead even the chosen ones!). I have learned, however, that if I want to drink CLEAN "water"... then I must go directly to the ORIGINAL Source of it... and not drink way down the stream, where the "water" has been tainted, polluted and altered.
Like tongues and prophecy, however, the Bible is NOT for believers; it is for UNbelievers. Believers... true believers... walk by FAITH... in what they HEAR... from the Spirit. In contrast, unbelievers... need to "see it"... in writing... or with their eyes. They (unbelievers) are FLESHLY... and so whatever it is they permit themselves to perceive must be through the empirical senses (sight, sound, taste, touch, smell). TRUE believers, however, are SPIRITUAL... and thus, can perceive ANYTHING that God... who is a SPIRIT... gives them... without using the empirical senses. How? They use... the spirit... which we all possess... but do not all use.
The reason that there is confusion about this is because there is confusion... about what a true "believer" IS... versus what an "unbeliever" is... due in part to the transliteration of the word from the ancient languages to the modern. The "scribes"... who were NOT spiritual, couldn't translate the word into anything BUT one that denotes an empirical meaning; they didn't know of anything else. Thus, due to "the false stylus of the secretaries"... people today believe that all one needs do is believe that Christ died for their sins... and that that is sufficient. However, it is NOT: even the demons believe in this sense - they know who and what Christ died for - yet, what does that get them?
TRUE faith, however, is the ASSURED EXPECTATION of the thing hoped for... the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION of reality... though NOT 'beheld' [seen with the fleshly eyes]. Therefore, a TRUE believer is not someone whose faith... or sight... is "blind"... and based on mere presumptions/assumptions. A TRUE believer is someone who KNOWS what they've HEARD from the Spirit... is TRUE - that what that One SAYS... WILL come to pass... and/or IS accurate... and so they BELIEVE that which they have heard. And, in turn, it is THEN that they SEE what it is they were told.
They "exercised" faith... FIRST... and that is what opened their eyes... and that is what allowed them to see that which cannot be seen... with eyes of flesh.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
myelaine

dear AGuest...
"I have learned, however, that if I want to drink CLEAN "water"... then I must go directly to the ORIGINAL Source of it... and not drink way down the stream, where the "water" has been tainted, polluted and altered.
A TRUE believer is someone who KNOWS what they've HEARD from the Spirit... is TRUE - that what that One SAYS... WILL come to pass... and/or IS accurate... and so they BELIEVE that which they have heard. And, in turn, it is THEN that they SEE what it is they were told. "...
there are three that testify to the truthfulness of Scripture...The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...The Holy Spirit is the One who continues to testify that the Scriptures are true...to me and to thousands of thousands and myriads of others...
the scribes and the pharisees were unable to see that Jesus was the promised Messiah that's one reason that Jesus said woe to them...the most obvious reason tho was that they continued to isolate "themselves" ...as the final authority on Scripture.
love michelle
AGuest

there are three that testify to the truthfulness of Scripture...The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...The Holy Spirit is the One who continues to testify that the Scriptures are true...to me and to thousands of thousands and myriads of others...
I am sorry, dear Michelle, but this is an error: you have it backwards, unfortunately. The Holy Spirit does not "testify that the Scriptures are true;" rather, the scriptures testify that the Holy Spirit is TRUE. Indeed, as a Bible reader, you should recall that even the Bible that we are to TEST the inspired expression... because not all inspired expressions originate with God. Certainly, Paul's admonition to remove a man from the Corinthian congregation was not "inspired of God." How do we know? Because... it divided the congregation and thus, divided the Christ! There is NO way that the Holy Spirit would have directed such a thing. Rather, it would have directed that the congregation FORGIVE the man... and show him MERCY. Because in that way... THEY would be forgiven... and shown mercy... for their sins. THAT is what CHRIST taught... and what the apostles tried to tell Paul... but he refused to listen. Paul reversed his position only when he realized the huge division his direction brought into the congregation. If it had come from God, and thus from the Holy Spirit... he would have stood by it... no matter what.
The TRUTH is that Christ, who IS the Holy Spirit... is our "teacher." Even the Bible, which is NOT "scripture"... but merely contains "scripture" (if you still need to see it in writing in order to exercise faith that truth)... testifies to that truth, even in places that are not "scripture":
"But you, do not you be called Rabbi, forONE is your teacher, whereas YOU are brothers." Matthew 23:8; John 1:38
"You address me as 'Teacher'... andyou speak rightly,for I am such." John 13:13; John 1:38
"What I teachis not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." John 7:16
But the comforter, the Holy Spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that One will teach you all things..." John 14:26
"Now, the Lord IS the Spirit..." 2 Corinthians 3:17
"And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is TRUE and is NO LIE..." 1 John 2:27
Get it? Christ, my Lord, IS the glorified spirit of God... the HOLY Spirit. He was not such until he completed his task and offered up a PERFECT sacrifice. Before that, he could not refer to himself as such Spirit because it would have been haughty and presumptuous. For if he had failed... and yes, he certainly could have failed because he was just like Adham and could have CHOSEN to take another path... which is the very reason WHY the Adversary tried to tempt him (if he couldn't BE tempted, why bother trying?)... then he would NOT have been glorified... and the task would NOT have been "accomplished." He had to prove himself faithful... to death. John 19:30
The Bible... is not "scripture," however. SCRIPTURE was written before my Lord came in the flesh. Which is why he referred to them... and "opened" them to his disciples. Luke 24:32, 45. They were added to ONLY by the Apostle John, who was given his revelation FROM God, BY Christ... via an angel... and told to write. That revelation also included John's account of the good news. However, NOTHING ELSE after Christ... is "scripture." No other writer was TOLD to "write" down that they were given. And scripture... is what God TELLS earthlng man... to write. These others are merely "epistles" (letters) and accounts (personal perspectives of what transpired). That's why they caused so much trouble... and still do.
The scribes and the pharisees were unable to see that Jesus was the promised Messiah that's one reason that Jesus said woe to them...
This is another error, dear Michelle. The scribes and Pharisee knew EXACTLY who he was. THEY... were from THEIR father, the Devil. And that is why they wanted to kill him: to silence him because he EXPOSED them for who they really were... the "offspring of vipers". They were learned in the scriptures and versed in the Law; as a result, then, they knew EXACTLY what to look for to prove that Messiah had come... starting with "his star" in the East. Heck, the wise men from the East knew who he was!! It was the wickedness of their hearts, however, that compelled them to DENY him... as well as lead the people away from him. If they didn't believe he was who they said, they would have not concerned themselves with him at all. But his WORKS proved who he was and so it was babes... and not wise men, as these believed themselves to be... who EXERCISED FAITH in him. If they didn't believe he was Messiah... they wouldn't have made up the lie as to what happened to his body when he rose and they found no one in his tomb.
He called them "blind," true, but NOT because they didn't know who he was: that "blindness" was for those who followed them. He called THEM "blind" because... they loved the darkness. Thus, it was those who could "see"... but who loved the darkness... who were leading those who could not "see." The "blind"... leading... the "blind."
the most obvious reason though was that they continued to isolate "themselves" ...as the final authority on Scripture.
Unfortunately, Paul was also guilty of this early on. Trained as a Pharisee under Gamaliel, he, too, tried to influence the early congregation by putting them back "under [the] Law." And many of those Jews and others who followed my Lord but no longer followed the scribes and Pharisees... forgot... and began to follow Paul... as "the final authority on Scripture". And many still do today. Back then, it is what caused the divison between Paul and the 12: they walked by the Spirit; he still walked by the Law. Gradually, he learned to walk by faith, but that was not the case from the beginning. That is why he appears to contradict and turn around what he taught early on.
Most go beyond even Paul, however, and consider the Bible as the "final authority." All are wrong: neither Paul, the Apostles, the Law... or the Bible... is the final authority. On scripture... or anything else. Christ... the Holy Spirit... is the FINAL authority. That is why HE said, "All authority... has been givenME... in heaven... AND ON EARTH." That is why those who truly belong to Christ... have no fear. Of Satan... of demons... of death... of anything. Because my Lord holds authority over ALL of these.
The 11 of the 12 knew this because they had walked with my Lord, literally... when he was here in the flesh... and was present when he told them of his authority. He ALSO told them... thathe was with them... and thus, he is with us... if we have received him! Matthew 28:18, 20; John 14:23; John 14:17; John 14:6; Romans 8:9-11
Paul, however, did not know this initially, but only after some time. In fact, it took some years, as Paul never knew my Lord in the flesh, but began to learn of him... and by him... after receiving holy spirit. Which spriit, by the way, Paul was NOT granted because he was so "zealous," as some falsely teach, but because he owed a debt: he was guilty of the blood of Christ by means of those he persecuted. Thus, my Lord chose Paul... to SUFFER for his (Christ's) sake. And suffer Paul did, until the day came when he could finally say that he was "clean" of the blood of ALL men. Acts 9:16; 20:26
(To give you a bit of insight, dear one, please know that I know these things... and all of the things I share from my Lord... NOT because the Bible tells me so (although it does support what I am sharing with you*), but because the Spirit himself has told me of it. You see, although my sin is not exactly the same as Paul's, per se, I have been chosen for a very similar reason: as I have confessed here numerous times... I am a foremost sinner... against Christ. And it was because of this that I was called and offered a chance to have my sins blotted out. It was because of my faith, however, that I heard the call of my Lord's voice... and answered when I did. And no, it was NOT just "a feeling." My name was literally called... and I answered.
What folks don't understand, however, because they have been falsely taught otherwise by the "scribes and Pharisees" since my Lord's day in the flesh, is that one must BE a sinner... to be called. The scribes and Pharisees teach you, however, that you have to become righteous FIRST... and then you are called. That... is a lie. You cannot become righteous on your own. It is only by means of his blood, which cleanses us from sin... that you can be deemed "righteous." So, as my Lord is recorded to say, "I came to call... sinners." A truly righteous person (i.e., one that is righteous on his own, without the benefits of the blood of Christ)... has no need of "salvation." Such one can "save" him or herself, yes? Unfortunately, there is no such person...
Anyway, I am compelled by the Spirit to say to you, dear one, put your faith in whomever... or whatever... you will. It is not my place to judge you... or anyone. It is between you... and Christ. I am nothing more than a servant, yours by means of being his, as I have openly stated. But do not say that the truth has not be spoken to you, for it truly has. Whether you hear... or refrain.
I bid you peace and I remain,
Your servant, as I am servant to all those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... and a slave of Christ,
SA
myelaine

dear A(mbitious)Guest...
Luke 14:7:11...
love michelle
AGuest

May you have peace!
Wel, I must say that I can understand how you... and others here... might think I am taking the prominent position for myself. If you knew me... and if you knew our Lord... I mean, truly KNEW him... and not just what you've heard ABOUT him... you would know that that really is not the case. You would know that it is the foolish things of the world that he chooses... and I am certainly a foolish thing, you have no idea. I mean, THAT should be evident by the fact that I'm even here... putting myself out like this... before God, Christ, and everyone, including the angels.
I can also understand that you... and others here... would rather me ratify what you believe... based on what you have been taught, what you have read in one or more of the many numerous versions of the Bible... that you would rather me "humble" myself and agree with your position. But I am sorry - I cannot do that, for several reasons. First and foremost, for me to do so would be blasphemy, for it would mean denying the Spirit that is teaching and leading me... as well as denying that that Spirit is teaching me... and directing me to share. Second, it would mean placing more value over my own flesh... specifically, my "popularity"... over my love for our Lord... result in obeying you... rather than obeying God, through Christ. Third, it would mean continuing to perpetuate the lie... rather than speaking the truth just as I receive it from the Truth. I'm sorry, dear Michelle... but I cannot do it. I am not made of such "cloth."
I understand... but I am not sure YOU do... how the verses you gave could cause me to doubt. You're thinking, "Who are YOU, Shelby, to say such things?" There are those here WAY more "worthy" and "righteous" and "knowing" than you are". First, this is very true, without a doubt. Second, I've already been down that road with myself... and with our Lord. Dear one, I first stood up for our Lord... and, thus, for the TRUTH... when I was in the WTBTS. You don't think I've had those verses... and more... thrown at me? Of course, I have. And praise JAH, I've already been taught how they apply to me... and how they don't.
Think what you will of me, dear Michelle. I can't change your mind... or your heart. It is not for me to do. What I AM to do... is "shout from the housetop" what I hear "whispered in the dark." What I AM to do... is let my "light" shine... and not hide it under a basket. What I AM to do... is not shrink back from the Spirit... but OBEY when he speaks. And he does not say to me, "Go to meetings, child." Or, "It's okay to tell them this little lie." Or "Aren't you afraid they're not going to LIKE you?" Nope. What he says to ME is, "All that I tell you is written... but not all that is written is what I will tell you. Go, feed my sheep."
And so, here I am. Before God, Christ, and everyone, including the angels. Obviously, it's not getting me any greater "seat" HERE. Perhaps, however, you think that I believe that by putting myself out here I am making some kind of grasp for a greater reward in heaven. If so, let me respond this way: I did not work and feed my children because I wanted them to "like" me. I didn't do it because I thought it would win me some "best mom" award. And I didn't do it because it was the "right thing to do." I did it... because I LOVED them. In the same vein, I do not come here and share what I do because I think it makes me prominent. I do not do it because I think it's going to make me popular, or make people like me. Quite to contrary, and anyone here from H20 can tell you that I know better than that. I do not come here because I think it's going to get me to greater reward in heaven, perhaps some higher place at the table of our Lord. And I do not come here and share what I do because "it's the right thing to do."
I come here... and share what I do... because he sends me here (because he loves you)... and I LOVE him... and so I obey. There is absolutely NO other reason. I am not seeking prominence or a reward. Indeed, if on the last day my Lord said to me, "Sorry, but you have no covering for your sins and therefore must be judged... and condemned," well, then, so be it. Who am I to argue? Let GOD be found true... though every man a liar, including me if that's His will. I can say that without reservation... because I know Him... and am known BY Him... through Christ. And so, I have no fear but, as Paul said, "great freeness of speech." That freeness was granted me by the Holy Spirit... and I'm sorry, but I won't deny it. I will leave that to the "indecisive" ones.
I bid you the greatest of love and peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
myelaine

dear AGuest...
"You're thinking, "Who are YOU, Shelby, to say such things?" There are those here WAY more "worthy" and "righteous" and "knowing" than you are"....
ok... I don't think that, never have...no one's personal righteousness or worth has anything at all to do with salvation...you could be the meanest hombre on the block and if you believe in Jesus as your Savior we're STILL equal...:)
I was actually "led" to post that scripture, (without drawing any distinction between us)...shout it on the rooftops, so to speak, or I would have posted it to you privately...
do you have some kind of complex?...I've never suggested anything but friendship to you and you seem to be saying that I'm calling for you to deny the Holy Spirit...
all I'm saying is that the Bible is the source by which we are led to knowledge of the truth and the best way to check or test the "spirits" is to check it out in Scripture...the biggest reason that so many people are sucked into cults or even authoritarian religions is because of their actual LACK of knowledge of what the Bible says!!!...the same can be said of those that will join a religion centered on love for mankind (in compliance with the the words of Jesus) but completely disregard the actual theme of the Bible, which is eternal salvation through Jesus.
John 8:31-32...
+ I still think highly of you and I still love you...nothing has changed since our first personal correspondence.
michelle
OUTLAW

Myelaine..Shelby isn`t pissed with you..LOL!! It`s just her way,of telling you what she believes..She is really a caring person..So..Don`t take her being direct,as being angry with you.................OUTLAW

"The Bible Says... The Bible Says..."

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