Challenges of apostasy: Attacking the Watchtower Beast

by easyreader1970 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • easyreader1970
    easyreader1970

    I am an "active" Jehovah's Witness in that I go to the meetings, smile and nod, and pretend to go along with everything happening around me. This is not because I believe that the WBTS has any redeeming value but because I am trying to keep my family from being shred to pieces. Because of my "independent thinking" and use of rational thought, I would clearly be labeled "apostate" and ousted from my current congregation.

    At first I thought that the WBTS was really no different than most other small religious organizations with their own fundamental belief systems. After a couple of years of fairly intense research into JW beliefs, I have come to my own conclusion (without suggestion or coercion from other "satanic" influences) that the WBTS deliberately lies and deceives its members. I have not determined through my research the purpose for this deceit. I don't know if it is for financial gain, power, control, or some combination of those. But I do know that it is an organization that thrives off of keeping its members ignorant and "sheeplike".

    Because of the Watchtower mentality, most of what I have learned will not be considered by most serious students of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Therefore, you can't really bring them in on a rational discussion. This is a safeguard devised by the Watchtower itself to keep its members from seeing the truth. It may work for new students or some people who have always been on the fence. But for the fully indoctrinated and assimilated, evidences I might have will fall on deaf ears.

    Is there another approach that we can take other than attacking contrived doctrine? I am not necessarily a believer that ANY of the Bible is the indisputable "word of God" so I don't need to explain why certain scriptures cannot be so. Witnesses have changed and twisted so much of the Bible to suit their own agenda, though, that I should be able to bring that up. But I can't.

    Is there anything that the Organization is actively doing that I might be able to hip people to other than saying things like:

    "Witnesses let their children die by taking the blood doctrine too literally" or "The Watchtower wants to keep their members in the dark by advising them against university"?

    I want people to see what they are doing as an Organization. When the September 2007 Kingdom Ministry came out, the article about Bible study groups hit me like a brick, but passed over many others. I want for things like that to hit other people, too.

    I don't want people to become like me (agnostic) or even to leave Christianity. I just want people to see that the "faithful discreet slave" is little more than a sham. It's some old white dudes (one of them is black now?) who are just voting on laws to make up and claiming that they are doing so with direction from Jesus Christ and that all should unquestioningly obey.

    er

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers

    Debating Watchtower doctrine with jw believers is little more than putting a band aid on a compound fracture IMHO. From everything I've read, it seems that the first step is to appeal to the misguided person's goals and memories before they were indoctrinated, so they get a sense of themselves as people, apart from being a cult member. Once that is accomplished, the next thing to do would be to discuss practices of other cults and then guide the believer to draw their own conclusions about the similariities with WB&TS cult.

    Sounds simple, but in reality, it is difficult and time consuming.

  • easyreader1970
    easyreader1970
    it seems that the first step is to appeal to the misguided person's goals and memories before they were indoctrinated, so they get a sense of themselves as people, apart from being a cult member.

    I have heard the same thing. For someone like my wife, whose indoctrination began at two years of age, being a Jehovah's Witness is all she knows. In fact, she once said to me that without the Organization she probably wouldn't have a reason to live in this horrible world and she would probably have either committed suicide or turned to drugs. I found that statement to be strange and unusual for someone who has never done drugs or anything. She has complete trust in the Organization. Any problems she says are the result of imperfect men but all the goodness comes from God. She can't see that the God that the WBTS have created doesn't even exist. She's doing obeisance to a group of men in Brooklyn. Many others fall into this same category.

    er

  • yknot
    yknot
    I don't want people to become like me (agnostic) or even to leave Christianity. I just want people to see that the "faithful discreet slave" is little more than a sham. It's some old white dudes (one of them is black now?) who are just voting on laws to make up and claiming that they are doing so with direction from Jesus Christ and that all should unquestioningly obey.

    Easy

    Just curious what percentage of congregants ages 20's to early 40's actually believe the FDS appointment in your KH.

    In mine there are only 3.

    The others stay due to the mixture of belief in the core 3, and family.

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    Ynot-

    What are you referring to when you say the "Core Three?"

  • yknot
    yknot

    The disbelief in trinity, Immortality of soul, and hellfire.

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    Thanks, aren't all three of these also core doctrine of Christadelphians and SDA??

    So stay away from these in my discussions with the witnesses, and if they try to pull me there, pull back to something else.

    I would like to some how or other get the PO and his wife to tell my wife about the appointment of the FDS, what would be a good slant to get this topic started.....is there a good question I can ask that may cause him to go into a discussion of this?

    They are coming over tomorrow evening!

  • easyreader1970
    easyreader1970
    Just curious what percentage of congregants ages 20's to early 40's actually believe the FDS appointment in your KH.

    I really don't know the answer to this and have no way to even guess. I don't talk to many people in there.

    Oh, I am sure there are many doubters in the ranks and a few of those might just outright reject the idea. But I am never in small enough circles to discuss this sort of thing. On the few days out of the year that I do drag myself out into field service (mostly to keep the wife happy) I am working with my children so I don't talk to others in there very much other than to say hello.

    er

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Please note, if you are reading this just after I posted, I must re-format, so your patience is appreciated.

    I have come to my own conclusion (without suggestion or coercion from other "satanic" influences) that the WBTS deliberately lies and deceives its members. I have not determined through my research the purpose for this deceit.

    It is to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Matthew 24:24. Mislead them how/where? The chosen ones are “children of light” Ephesians 5:8… and Satan keeps transforming himself into an “angel of light.” It’s like the scene in “A Bug’s Life,” where the two traveling bugs come upon a bug light, and one cries out, “Louie, Louie! Don’t look at the light!” and the other, mesmerized, responds, “I can’t HELP it; it’s so BEAUTIFUL!”

    There is only one TRUE Light, however, and that is Christ. John 1:4-9; 8:12. The WTBTS’ primary purpose, therefore, is to lead folks to them… and their organization… a true "golden calf"... rather than to Christ. They are blind guides… and a false “light.” As are all who stand in the place of Christ.

    I don't know if it is for financial gain, power, control, or some combination of those.

    No, the main reason is to mislead folks away from God, truly… by misleading them away from Christ. That's one of the reasons they've taken him out of their Bible... why they've put "Jehovah" back in the place that the Most Holy One of Israel GAVE to Christ. No one comes to the Father except through Christ, and if they can diminish his presence... and his purpose... then they are removing the Way to God. 1 John 14:6

    They can do this because the majority of earthling man do not know how to live as a “free” people (i.e., do not know how to love God, their brother, their neighbor, strangers, AND their enemies without being told when and how to do so). So, they need some kind of “authority” to “guide” them, someone to TELL them what is right and what is wrong… to TELL them how they should live… and how they shouldn’t. A "leader" or "king." So, they raise up… and follow… some kind of earthly “leader" or "king,” usually manifest as a monarch, a president or other governor, a pope, etc., but can also be a “governing body,” or some other kind of “council,” etc.. It can even be a common individual. What they forget, however, is that the financial gain, power, and control… is the “right” of such "leader" or "king", isn’t it? 1 Samuel 8:10-22 TRUE followers of Christ know, however, that while they are to given honor, tribute, respect, and obedience to the superior authorities and their laws … they have only one "leader"... one KING… Christ. Matthew 23:10.

    But how do those who truly belong to Christ reconcile having him as their king but still obey the laws of man? First, they don’t “bind” themselves to anyone other than Christ. Second, they realize that they are “alien residents” and so give respect to the law of the “land” in which they are temporarily residing: the physical realm. But they only do that to the extent such laws do not supplant the law of their TRUE king and home, Christ and the kingdom of God, which law… is fulfilled by love.

    But I do know that it is an organization that thrives off of keeping its members ignorant and "sheeplike".

    Exactly. It is no different than the slave owners of early American history. They realized that if they allowed slaves to read, they would become educated... and come to know for a certainty that such slavery was wrong... and the people perpetuating it had done so by falsities, lies, and evil intention. And that was the most dangerous threat to the perpetuation of slavery, so, slaves weren’t allowed to read, to even possess books, and risked whipping, if not death, if they broke that rule. THe WTBTS uses the same tack: learn anything other than what they teach you... and you will die. You will be "destroyed at Armaggedon." Like the slaveowners before them... this is a lie.

    you can't really bring them in on a rational discussion. This is a safeguard devised by the Watchtower itself to keep its members from seeing the truth.

    And, again, THAT is their purpose: to keep their members from seeing… the TRUTH... Christ. John 14:6. They do this by “breathing life” into the “image of the wild beast.” How so? The wild beast that was slaughtered, that received a death-stroke, but survived… is Judaism. God gave Judah a “death-stroke” when He allowed them to be exiled into Babylon and the first temple destroyed. But it’s death-stroke “got healed” – God allowed them to return to Jerusalem and rebuild. He again allowed its destruction in 70 C.E. and, although the second temple has never been rebuilt, the WTBTS’ uses its (Judaism's) teachings in order to overpower “Israel.” Thus, they “put under compulsion the small AND the great, the rich AND the poor, the free AND slaves…” that they should give these the mark of the “wild beast” (Judaism).

    The WTBTS fulfills this prophecy in that their ONE method for putting ones under compulsion to worship the wild beast… is the Law Covenant. Rather than LIVING the teaching that the Covenant was fulfilled and done away with, by means of Christ, they use it to put fear into their members… and blind their minds to the glorious good news ABOUT Christ, the Holy Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:15-17; 4:3-5. LOVE, however, for God, for brother, for neighbor, for strangers, AND for our enemies… which is the FULFILLMENT of the NEW Covenant… casts fear… outside… and is what makes us “perfect” in the eyes of God and Christ. Matthew 22:37-39; John 13:34; 15:12, 17; Matthew 5:43-48.

    Is there another approach that we can take other than attacking contrived doctrine?

    Ummmm, speak the truth? And show them... in the Bible... where their teachings are false?

    Is there anything that the Organization is actively doing that I might be able to hip people to other than saying things like "Witnesses let their children die by taking the blood doctrine too literally" or "The Watchtower wants to keep their members in the dark by advising them against university"? I want people to see what they are doing as an Organization.

    Well, my Lord exposed the early "scribes and Pharisees" for their hypocrisy. The WTBTS' statements on pages 69-70 of the Proclaimer’s Book regarding the clergy of Christendom should help with this today. I would quote it for you, but I don’t have a copy that book handy, right now. There’s also the statement in margin on page 219 regarding them being “the visible representation of the Lord on earth,” which is a LIE. The last "visible representation" was, for unbelievers, the temple at Jerusalem... and for believers, Christ himself. Since that time, all representation is "invisible," with the Body of Christ SUBSTITUTING for the "visible" representation, Christ, but not supplanting him.

    Or, how about the information in the Proclaimer’s Book regarding the fact that they started as a corporation requiring shareholders to buy in for stock at $10 per share… and still are such corporation… with stock being held by non-JWs… and that the purpose of a corporation is to make money for its shareholders?

    I don't want people to become like me (agnostic) or even to leave Christianity. I just want people to see that the "faithful discreet slave" is little more than a sham. It's some old white dudes (one of them is black now?) who are just voting on laws to make up and claiming that they are doing so with direction from Jesus Christ and that all should unquestioningly obey.

    Then direct them to pages 69-70 of the Proclaimer’s Book, starting with the new heading in the middle of page 69. Read it carefully, though... and, if you have the opportunity, have the one you're discussing it with read it carefully, too. If that doesn’t do it, then perhaps your next step is… prayer? To God, through Christ… for them TO get it… and get out of her? This would consitute praying for your "enemy."

    I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • civicsi00
    civicsi00

    The reason it's so hard for JW's to let go of the WT Organization is because it is a huge, visible entity. They feel it must be guided by God Himself somehow, and there's very little to persuade them otherwise.

    The fight is not to go against all JW's, but to help those who are wanting to get out,or who don't know where to turn to if they leave, or if they're even making the right decision. Those are the people that should be made aware of what they just came out of, and that they can turn to someone: Christ Jesus.

    If you really want to "wake up" a JW, then there's not one single solution. For me, it was finding out about the UN scandal. That opened the door for me to start questioning. For others, it may be the flip-flops, or the '95 Generation change, or whatever.

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