Don't have a cow! Golden Calf II

by cameo-d 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    does the poster never use wikipedia?

    The poster does use wiki, smarty pants.

    Does the respondent never read the question?

    Your answer does not address or resolve any of these questions:

    1. Why would they choose a CALF as opposed to a bull or a cow?

    2. So what's the message here? Why would these people choose a diety that seems inept at guidance, defense, and protection?

    However, I did find something of value in your post, thank you. I read a little something on Samiri (Aaron). And this is interesting and something new to me.

    It says that Samiri (Aaron) took some of the dust from Moses footsteps and used it in shaping the mold of the calf. He believed that Moses had left a spiritual presence in the dust where he walked.

    By using this dust he felt it gave the calf a spiritual aura.

    http://www.islamfrominside.com/Pages/Tafsir/Tafsir(7-152).html

    Maybe that's where we get the saying..."worshipping the ground you walk on"?

    Do you think that Moses really wanted the worship for himself and was actuallt hiding behind or using this introduction of a new god as a guise?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    "Yes, even 'Jehovah' himself was referred to as a bull and depicted with bovine imagery". I never ever heard of this! Can you tell me where you find this information?

    Well, there is much evidence of this both in the OT and in archaeological discoveries:

    1) 1 Kings 12:25-33 relates how King Jeroboam I set up two golden bulls in Bethel and Dan, which he presented with the declaration, "Behold, your god (hnh 'lhyk) who brought you out of Egypt." There was no other god than Yahweh credited with the act of bringing Israel out of Egypt and no other god is named in this passage.

    2) In Exodus 32, Jeroboam's act is retrojected back to the exodus itself and attributed to Aaron; this reflects the Aaronid priesthood that served Jeroboam's bull cult in Bethel. Jeroboam's declaration is slightly reworded in v. 4: "These are your gods ('lh 'lhyk) who brought (h`lwk, plural) you out of Egypt." The plural is due to the ambiguous phrasing in 1 Kings 12:28 wherein the plural would pertain to the two idols that Jeroboam made of the same god to be erected in two locations (Aaron's declaration is corrected to an unambiguous singular in Nehemiah 9:18). Again, there is no indication that this is a god other than Yahweh; in fact, in the very next verse Aaron builds an altar in front of the golden calf and he declares: "Tomorrow there will be a feast to Yahweh" (v. 5). Clearly, the bovine idol was intended to be a representation of Yahweh, at whose altar the sacrifices for the feast would be made. Unbeknownst to Aaron in the narrative, Yahweh had already decreed that no images were to be made to resemble creatures on the earth (Exodus 20:4).

    3) Bethel, the center of the Aaronid priesthood and the location of one of the golden calves, was an old patriarchal cultic site revered by the patriarchs in Genesis, which was specifically associated with the god El (i.e. Bethel means "house of El", cf. El-Elyon and El-Shaddai in the patriarchal traditions) and El was identified with Yahweh in OT texts. El was referred to as "Bull El" in Canaanite texts (e.g. KTU 1.6 iv 10-11) and this bovine imagery appears in the archaic patriarchal poem in Genesis 49:24 which, in a constellation of titles and descriptors associated with El (including Shaddai, Olam, and "breasts and womb") refers to the "Bull of Jacob". In the much later Psalm 132:2, 5, this title "Bull of Jacob" is applied to Yahweh.

    4) Yahweh is also described with bovine imagery in Numbers 24:8 as having horns "like the horns of a wild ox."

    5) The Bethel bull-cult is mentioned in Hosea 13:2 which mentions that the people of Ephraim (where Bethel was located, cf. the condemnation of Bethel in Hosea 10:15) "kiss the calf-idols". In this passage Baal is mentioned since Yahweh was identified with Baal in the northern kingdom (cf. Hosea 2:16 wherein Yahweh is called by the Israelites "my Baal", and cf. the many Baal terms and imagery which are applied to Yahweh in the OT, e.g. Deuteronomy 33:2, Judges 4-5, 1 Samuel 12:18, Psalm 18:7-15, Psalm 29, 68:4-9, 74:13-14, Isaiah 14:13-14, 27:1, 30:19, 51:9, Jeremiah 3:3, 5:24, 10:13, 14:4, Amos 4:7, Habakkuk 3:3-11, Haggai 1:7-11, Malachi 3:10, etc.). The royal enthronment psalm in Psalm 2:11-12 also uses the motif of kissing in reference to Yahweh worship.

    6) Bulls and calves are common in tenth and ninth century BC cult objects from the northern kingdom, such as the Tanaach cult stand. One Samaria ostracon has an inscription that reads "Young bull is Yaw".

    7) The Kuntillet Arjud pithos from the early 8th century BC has a benediction attributed to King Joash of Israel that gives a blessing by "Yahweh of Samaria and his asherah", and next to the inscription is a large figure with bull's head, hooved feet and tail and a similar smaller female figure with breasts. The "Yahweh of Samaria", recalling the "young bull of Samaria" of Hosea 8:6, is probably depicted by the male bovine figure and his "asherah" (i.e. his consort) is depicted by the smaller figure.

    8) Most telling is the Amherst Papyrus from the third century BC which contains the traditions of Israelites from Samaria who settled in Egypt after the dispersion of the northern tribes. This text, which has many traditions relating to the Assyrian conquest and the northern kingdom, contains a lot of information about the Bethel bovine cult. It refers to "Yaho our bull" as the "lord of Bethel" (XI.17), and the practice of kissing the calves of Bethel: "Let them kiss your bulls, let them desire your calves, Exalted One, the calves of your ??? [lacuna]" (V.12-22). The passage of XI.11-19 is thought to be a descendent of the actual prayer used in the Bethel bull cult and it is closely paralleled by Psalm 20. What makes this probable is that this prayer is also echoed in 2 Chronicles 13:8-12 in Abijah's condemnation of Jeroboam and his calf-cult.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d
    The Bethel bull-cult

    This just struck me too funny.

    I'll be back with some seriousness when I finish reading this and doing some more investigating.

    Thank you Leolia.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    Cameo, do u ever venture outside? Do yourself a favor, stop obsessing about calves/bulls/cows. Visit a local bar or pub and talk to at least three people. It's amazing what real social interaction does for u. Coming soon! Revenge of the Golden Calf III, presented in 2D

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d
    Cameo, do u ever venture outside? Do yourself a favor, stop obsessing about calves/bulls/cows. Visit a local bar or pub and talk to at least three people. It's amazing what real social interaction does for u.

    Are you asking me for a date?

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    Sorry Cameo wish I could help but I'm too busy living a real life.

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    cameo is a newbie and has questions. Where are our manners?

    I noted that possible san ( another newbie) was given an interrogation instead of a welcome.

    cameo has started a thread to stimulate discussion . we want newbies to come to this board.

    that is why this board exists.

  • Devilsnok
    Devilsnok
    4) Yahweh is also described with bovine imagery in Numbers 24:8 as having horns "like the horns of a wild ox."

    Jehovah has horns!!!

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d
    4) Yahweh is also described with bovine imagery in Numbers 24:8 as having horns "like the horns of a wild ox."

    Jehovah has horns!!!

    So maybe that's where we all got the idea that the devil has horns?

    I never thought of that either. So that's where it comes from! oh my.

    Does this mean, that all this time, people have been calling the devil "god" aka Jehovah?

    Have people been serving the wrong deity, unintended?

    What an eye opener.

  • sinis
    sinis

    Sumer Enlil is Jehovah, the bull god. Here is Enlil and his wife Ninlil:

    alt

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