Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced (page 3)

Satanus

Wt doesn't like jws shouting hallelujah. It's definitely a nono. It's too churchey;)

S

Jews could pronounce Hallelu-yah, and as was mentioned many names are made up of parts of god's name. So maybe it wasn't blasphemous to them as long as they didn't say the whole word. (Kind of like our saying 'tarnation' isn't as bad as the 'eternal damnation' it came from!)

Gopher

Jews could pronounce Hallelu-yah, and as was mentioned many names are made up of parts of god's name. So maybe it wasn't blasphemous to them as long as they didn't say the whole word.

I'm sorry, but I find this superstition hilarious. So if you're an Orthodox Jew, you can use a "fraction" of the divine name, and certain combinations of fractions, as allowed by your religious leaders. -- Just so long as you didn't use the "whole" name, you're kosher.

It reminds me of a certain cult and its Pharisaic laws about blood "fractions" vs. whole blood.

LisaAnn

This might be weird, but I think I prefer catholicism to any other cristian religion.

True, you're in fear of burning in hell, but all you really have to do is confess your sins to some guy and you're absolved! Born a sinner? A little water sprinkling and you're fine. Hellfire no longer an issue. How cool is that.

I'm not surprised they agree with the jewish stand that the almighty's name is sacred. They've always maintained the ancient feeling of awe and reverence for rock and stone with their magnificent churches. And isn't that what spirit-uality is all about- when your spirit is moved in a magical way? What does spirit-uality have to do with arguing doctrine and splitting hairs?

Catholics don't even try to discuss issues in a logical way, the answers come down from a pope that doesn't pussy-foot around by saying he 'isn't inspired he just has god's direction'. I'm tired of stuffy, self-righteous, and austere protestantism. I like the mystical, earthy, and ancient feel of the catholic church.

It's too bad I'm an atheist.

Gopher

Catholics don't even try to discuss issues in a logical way, the answers come down from a pope that doesn't pussy-foot around by saying he 'isn't inspired he just has god's direction'.

Lots of similarities between the Catholics and JW's, eh?

You had me going until this...

It's too bad I'm an atheist.

I am too. It's kind of fun to watch erudite religionists argue over technicalities of some mystical (and likely mythical) deity whose name they won't pronounce.

reniaa

True, you're in fear of burning in hell, but all you really have to do is confess your sins to some guy and you're absolved! Born a sinner? A little water sprinkling and you're fine. Hellfire no longer an issue. How cool is that. lisaAnn

this definition keeps changing depending which pope is in power but current thinking is it's not an actual fire just a state of being so if you are a sinner you don't have to worry about demons with pitchforks toasting you over a literal fire anymore

Pope says hell and damnation are real and eternal
By Richard Owen in Rome
March 28, 2007 12:00am

HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said.

Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, the Pope said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal damnation - the inferno".

Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more".
He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God", to be understood "symbolically rather than physically".
Agostino Paravicini Bagliani, a church historian, said the Pope was "right to remind us that hell is not something to be put on one side" as an inconvenient or embarrassing aspect of belief.

It was described by St Matthew as a place of "everlasting fire" (Matthew xxv, 41).
"The problem is not only that our sense of sin has declined, but also that the world wars and totalitarianisms of the 20th century created a hell on earth as bad as anything we can imagine in the afterlife," Professor Bagliani said.
In 1999, pope John Paul II said heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God, which is the goal of human life".
Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".
In October, the Pope indicated that limbo, supposed since medieval times to be a "halfway house" between heaven and hell, was "only a theological hypothesis" and not a "definitive truth of the faith".

cabasilas

Just to clarify: this directive applies to liturgical situations. This doesn't mean that Catholic scholars will no longer refer to the Old Testament name for God in their writings or that Catholics will refuse to pronounce the name Yahweh at all. What this means is that in Catholic worship the Church will follow the New Testament standard of using "Lord" or "God" when reading Old Testament texts or in singing Psalms during the Mass or in the Divine Liturgy.

Catholics will still use the Jerusalem Bible, though I wouldn't be surprised if newer editions will go back to following the early Christian tradition on using "Lord" instead of "Yahweh." The Jerusalem Bible was used in lectionary readings in the UK at one point, but even then the lectionary version of the Jerusalem Bible had "Lord" instead of "Yahweh." As far as I know, no Catholic lectionary (used for readings at Liturgy) has had "Yahweh" in it.

As has been noted, this follows the New Testament practice where Old Testament passages that referred to Yahweh in the Old Testament were applied without hesitation to Christ. From a Christian point of view, this is one reason why the use of the name Yahweh died out before the Christian era, to pave the way for this revelation.

ldrnomo

Well at least the Catholic church isn't telling there rank and file what they can and can't say.

LD

David2002

Why the sudden change? Catholic churches rarely used the name anyway, even though it appears in several of their Bible versions including the Jerusalem Bible, the New Jerusalem Bible and the Christian Community Bible, all of which contain the Name spelt as Yahweh . They have also sponsored a Catholic edition of the Living Bible, which includes the name Jehovah in the OT over 300 times. The Westminister Catholic version, which was orginally published in the UK , includes the name Jehovah in the OT each time YHWH appears in the original text. The Older Catholic Spanish Versions, such as the Spanish Catholic Bible by Torres Amat, including the name spelt as Jehova a few times in the OT text. Yet many Catholic were encouraged to read the New American Catholic Bible or another Catholic version which did not contain the name. Now it appears they want to take the name out all together.

The argument they use is weak, and in apppears to contradict Jesus himself. They argue that the LXX NEVER used God's name. However, it is now known that earlier editions of the LXX did contain the Tetragrammatton. A more recent discovery of the fragments called "Nahal Hever Minor Prophets" dated around 50 CE, contains the books of Habakkuk, Nahum, Micah, Zechariah, etc. and it includes contain the Tetragram. Another dated LXX fragment dated around the 1st century which contains the book of Job 42, and it also contains the Tetragram. Evidence indicates that the earlier or original LXX contained the Name. Those earlier editions of the LXX were written around the time of Jesus' ministry. However, the Catholic church appears to appeal to the LXX that were written in the 2nd and 3rd, which were available after Jesus' life on earth. Some scholars believe that prior to the mid-2nd century no copies of the LXX contained substitutes for the Divine Name. Instead, they used some version of the Name. So when when Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah as recorded in Luke chapter 4, he must of pronounced God's name. Jesus did not follow the Jewish custom of not pronouncing God's name. In Matthew 15, he said that the Pharisees made God's word invalid by their traditions and non-bibilcal rules. Jesus instead taught us that we should sanctify or keep God's name holy, and made his name known. (Mat. 6:9, 10, John 17:6, 26). The very name Jesus means "Jehovah's means of salvation", something which the early Christians, who were mainly composed of Jewish converts, must have known. They knew that Jesus was sent by Jehovah to save humankind (compare Matt. 1:21, John 3:16, 36). The apostle Paul while emphasizing Jesus name, as the name GIVEN by which we must be saved, also stated that God had selected the Christian congregation as a "people for his name", and then cited the Hebrew Scriptures which mentioned God's name twice, most likely quoting from an early LXX which included the Name. The 144,000 Christians of Rev. 14 have the name of Jesus and his Father's name "written on their forehead". In Rev. 19:1-6, all of the Christians are said to be worshipping and saying Hallelujah, Praise Jah, Jehovah. So the NT text clearly shows that true Christians will be praisers of Jehovah, making God's name known and sanctifying it like Jesus did.

cabasilas

David2002,

Can you name ONE place where Jesus utters the name Jehovah in a prayer?

Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced

Pope says hell and damnation are real and eternal

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