Autism Times six.. on discovery health

by Cc81 92 Replies latest social family

• 

  cameo-d

  No one is talking about murdering children or adults.

  We are talking about making responsible, well-informed reproductive decisions.

  How you make the leap of logic to eugenics is beyond me.

  Yes you are. And yes "they" are.

  It is a big part of the "paradise agenda" to kill off all the old useless people as well as retarded and handicapped. There is a lot of promotion of late how these people are a burden on the medical system and being sustained by taxpayers. Hatred for the old and the "useless" is building. I think this is being encouraged in a subtle manner and many young people are becoming hostile because, as they say "the world is already overpopulated" and I have seen these misfortunate people referred to in print as "useless eaters."

  Here is an example of what I am talking about. Let's bring in a Paradise where we don't have to take care of anybody and we can play all day. Kill off the ugly ones, too, so we don't have to look at them. Paradise must be perfect.

  Old people with dementia have a duty to die and should be pushed towards death, says Baroness Warnock

  By Steve Doughty
  Last updated at 10:43 PM on 20th September 2008

  Elderly people with dementia are 'wasting' the lives of those who have to care for them, one of the country's most influential experts on medical ethics said yesterday.

  Baroness Warnock said that for the old and sick who are contemplating dying, 'there is nothing wrong with feeling you ought to do so'.

  Her remarks in an interview with a church journal were the first public suggestion from any expert with close links to Whitehall that euthanasia should not only be legal but that elderly people should be pressed towards death.

  Lady Warnock said: 'If you are demented, you are wasting people's lives, your family's lives, and you are wasting the resources of the National Health Service.'

  (UK Daily Mail)

  -------

  This is what it takes to bring in the Paradise. The overpopulation has to be dealt with. In the old testament you were told that god does not allow deformity in his priesthood. So why should god allow deformed children and useless old people in his paradise?

  The young people are becoming resentful because it comes out of their paychecks to fund all this attention on "useless" people.

  That's why it's time for Jehovah-jihad. How many is he supposed to be killing...6 billion?
• 

  Iforget

  LDH perhaps you should go back and CAREFULLY read my post. I DID have genetic testing and it was wrong. So your spouting of science - well it's not always correct.

  and DUH dna is a human being but it is not all that a human being is.

  You simply want to fight and spout hatred. I can see that you simply don't understand because you continue to refer to your "down's syndrome friend" when in fact it's a child with a name and a gender. Our buddy walk is this coming weekend and it's people like you who should stay away. We don't need your hatred or ignorance.
• 

  LDH

  LDH perhaps you should go back and CAREFULLY read my post. I DID have genetic testing and it was wrong. So your spouting of science - well it's not always correct.

  and DUH dna is a human being but it is not all that a human being is.

  You simply want to fight and spout hatred. I can see that you simply don't understand because you continue to refer to your "down's syndrome friend" when in fact it's a child with a name and a gender. Our buddy walk is this coming weekend and it's people like you who should stay away. We don't need your hatred or ignorance.

  I said, IF DESPITE MY BEST EFFORTS I HAD A CHILD THAT WAS MEDICALLY FRAGILE I WOULD DO MY BEST TO CARE FOR THAT CHILD. However whatever I could do to MINIMIZE that possibility, I would do. Including aborting a fetus that was medically compromised.

  Do you not understand English???? Why do you have a hard time respecting MY personal decision? I thought this was a discussion forum, which by definition includes perspectives other than your own. Why do I (and others like me) have to be lambasted by people who want to tell us I'm selfish if I abort that fetus?
• 

  StAnn

  LDH, I'm curious at what point you and others like you consider a fetus medically compromised. Some people with Down's Syndrome are highly functioning, others are not. I heard of a man who insisted his wife abort their baby because it had a cleft palate and clenched fists. Where do you draw the line? Also, we've all known women who were told by their doctors that their baby had serious problems, only to have the baby be born absolutely fine because the doctor's made a mistake.

  Just wanting to know what kind of info goes into your decision making.

  StAnn
• 

  StAnn

  bttt

  StAnn
• 

  StAnn

  LDH, btw, I do know who Margaret Sanger is and find her views repulsive. Here's a little something about her that is not widely known:

  http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html

  Too long to copy here.

  StAnn
• 

  Satanus

  St Anne
  Maybe, you can answer these questions for me. Do/are humans have a spirit/soul? When does it enter the cells?
  
  S
• 

  Iforget

  Do you not understand English???? Why do you have a hard time respecting MY personal decision? I thought this was a discussion forum, which by definition includes perspectives other than your own. Why do I (and others like me) have to be lambasted by people who want to tell us I'm selfish if I abort that fetus?

  Well I do understand English when you lambasted me in my first response with a hate filled retort that I am a mother looking for accolades. I can assure you that is the least of my concerns in life. No one lambasted you for chosing abortion. What I am pointing out is that you continue to refer to those with a disability by their diagnosis. My daughter is a human being. She is a child. She is a little girl. Down syndrome (not Down's - no one owns it) is something she HAS but it is NOT who she IS. My point to you is that once you reduce a human being to a single chromosome then you lose sight of what is tangible.

  Futhermore it is not your personal decision. You have NEVER stood in my shoes therefore you can't know what you would have done or would do. Judging from your replies you are not an evolved person and can't see the line being drawn. Try people first language and then MAYBE we can have an English based, perspective based conversation by definition. So tell me this oh deep thinker - if given the "choice" would you abort any type of abnormality if you could determine it with genetic testing prior to birth? Hitler anyone?
• 

  LDH

  I forget,

  That's rich that you would invoke the word 'evolved,' the fact is I used to have your EXACT same view for 4 or 5 years while I was a JW, and after I left the JWs. Four or five years of parenting kind of takes the clouds out of your eyes when you get settled into the day to day realities of parenting responsibilities.

  I also let go of the fantasy that I was going to get another stab at life, and that anything that I didn't accomplish in this life, I could have all of eternity to worry about fixing it. As soon as I adjusted my viewpoint, I adjusted my decisions with regards to responsibility of creation of life.

  LDH, I'm curious at what point you and others like you consider a fetus medically compromised. Some people with Down's Syndrome are highly functioning, others are not. I heard of a man who insisted his wife abort their baby because it had a cleft palate and clenched fists. Where do you draw the line? Also, we've all known women who were told by their doctors that their baby had serious problems, only to have the baby be born absolutely fine because the doctor's made a mistake.

  Just wanting to know what kind of info goes into your decision making.

  StAnn

  In short? Everything the medical experts tell me. Every question I ask that has an answer of probability. I can't speak on the story you gave because I don't know the details, it's just a anecdotal story. For all I know, SHE wanted to have an abortion but was afraid of the reaction of anti-abortionists so she blamed it on her husband. Yes, I have observed this as well.

  I don't gamble, I don't frequent casinos, I don't really even buy lotto scratchers cause I'm not a lucky type person. I stack the deck in my favor and then let it ride.

  You want to know specifically, what fetus or baby would I abort? A fetus with a chromosomatic defect or a severe congenital deformity such as hydrocephaly.

  So tell me this oh deep thinker - if given the "choice" would you abort any type of abnormality if you could determine it with genetic testing prior to birth?

  YES.

  Hitler anyone?

  NO.

  Not the same thing at all. Many babies have also been born that the Dr said "Your baby is completely healthy" and then that baby was NOT.

  I advocate making an informed decision knowing what resources EACH person has.

  Margaret Sanger was both a visionary and a victim of her times. Some of her views she took too far. Her views on women being in control of their reproductive process, she did not. In my opinion.

  In St. Ann's case, she made an informed decision to marry a man who had two disabled children. It's not as though they got married and he said, "Hey by the way." Therefore she made the same decision as women who birth babies have to make, whether to have lifelong responsibility to a human who will be dependent on her until the end of their life.
• 

  LDH

  Sanger's quote in 1915:

  It is a vicious cycle; ignorance breeds poverty and poverty breeds ignorance. There is only one cure for both, and that is to stop breeding these things. Stop bringing to birth children whose inheritance cannot be one of health or intelligence. Stop bringing into the world children whose parents cannot provide for them.

  She is my hero for stating this, even moreso in 1915.

  Look around you at the rest of the world which denies women access to contraceptive or reproductive knowledge.

  India?

  China?

  South America?

  Africa?

  I don't find it to be a coincedence that women in these countries have baby after baby....and 90% of the time raise them in poverty. Keep looking around you. The concept of a "Happy childhood" did not manifest itself until the last 150 years when parents had wealth at their disposal. Up until that time, and still in most of the world, children are born as little more than servants. To help on the farm. To sell to sex traders. To stitch soccer balls so kids in the USA can play soccer on the weekend.

  Those are just the facts. If there was one thing I could do to change the world, I repeat, I would tell women to stop having all of these GOTDAYUM babies they can't take care of. I would make sure women had access to knowledge.