I'm so sorry you are going through this. I also have family members who shun me. I am not df'd or da'd, only faded, and for a number of years my family still associated with me. They stopped when they found out I was attending another church. Like you, I didn't talk to them too much about religious issues for fear it would rock the boat. Now I wish I had. Since they refuse to talk to me, I can't say anything now to help them find their way out of the WT cult. You can still talk to your 16 year old. Is there any way you can discretely help her to see her way out? Since she can still talk to your older daughter, there may be a way you can help them both. Steven Hassan's book "Releasing the Bonds" gives helpful advice on things you can do to help your daughters find their way to freedom. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Being Shunned
by sadfox 21 Replies latest jw friends
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crazyblondeb
I can't even begin to imagine your pain. As others have suggested, stay open to her. Remember when we were all 18, and thought we knew it all?? Then as we got a little older, we realized we didn't, and that maybe we did need our parents. And most of them, weren't so bad, after all.
It took me 12 years of pain and tears to make sure all my siblings got out. As kids get a little older, and wiser, most begin to look at the world in a different way. While she's under her dad's roof, she's stuck in their mindset.
Are you from the mid-west?? I'm in Missouri. Feel free to PM me anytime......We are all here for you.
shelley
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jamiebowers
I don't have any advice, but for me, enduring shunning is like enduring a death. There's no way around it. But the difference is that your daughter hasn't passed away, and she very well may wake up one day.
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Damocles
SadFox,
Some 9 years ago I was in the same position...well nearly. I'm a father and my son was 15 and daughter 20 when I and their mother divorced and I quit the religion. My ex wife is still very active in the religion.
My son is out of the religion, doing well and we get along quite well. My daughter is still in, very active, and we have nothing to do with each other.
I will give you some advice, but then its coming from a man who spent more than 20 years in a bad marriage and in a wacky religion. Not much of a recommendation so take the advice with a grain of salt.
1) Get some professional help to deal with the whole situation. Preferably a cognitive type psychologist who concentrates more on how to deal with the problem rather than how you got there. I went for about 7 - 8 weeks and it helped. The biggest help was just being able to formulate my thoughts and feelings and speak them to a neutral listener.
2) Try to get past the 'victim' stage as quickly as possible. Of course, you are a victim, but it just feels so much better when you are in more control. At some point, I got pretty angry, thinking ' who are you (my children) to reject and shun me? I wiped your bottom, stayed up nights tending your sickness, provided for you..and this is the thanks I get?'. You will be dealing with a mountain of guilt. The W's are masters at piling it on. Some of that you just have to reject. Some guilt is okay. Divorce is never easy and always comes with some appropriate guilt. You can learn to deal with it. Leave off the 'I was disfellowshipped'. First its an atrocious word and one of the only worse ones is disassociated. You quit. What they want to do with their membership roles is their problem. You dont have to buy into their view of the world. Take a bit more control.
3) Accept that this is a painful process. No one likes a root canal, but we accept the pain knowing its necessary. So here, some pain is inevitable. In a sense, you are dealing with 3 deaths. The death of a marriage. The death of your religion and all it embodies. And the death of your relationship with one daughter and possibly two. Coping with these emotional events is a process, and similar to death you go through denial and disbelieve, anger, and finally resignation and acceptance. The time required is different for everyone and for myself the last stage occurred about 3 years after it started. Since then things are quite good and I am so much happier and more content...even with the loss of my daughter.
4) Like you, I decided not to challenge the beliefs or the religion of my children. In hindsight that was a mistake. It would have been okay if the Ws would have done the same. They did not. Every chance they got they badmouthed me and tried to turn my son and daughter against me. Not in obvious ways, of course, more as the killing you with faint praise. The sly innuendo. The false concern. Your daughters are now 'spiritual orphans' - gag me with a spoon! Make no mistake though - the people in the church are actively trying to turn them both against you and it is war. I was gobsmacked. My son at 16 turned against me and refused to see me. I had legal rights but then it turns out that these are rarely enforced with older children. That went on for two years, till he was in desperate mental and emotional shape and called for help at 2am (I guess the bottom wiping and sickness tending did have an impact). I wonder if I could have prevented some of that had I been more clear and definite about my reasons for leaving. I very much yielded them the high ground. In the end I just stopped believing the religion. Why don't I and you have the right to state that clearly and to state the reasons? No, to do over again, I would have been explicit and passionate about all the ridiculousness in the religion and let the chips fall. Less the victim and more the challenger.
5) It may seem like a little thing, but it is crucial to me. Stop using their language. One way the J dubs win arguments is by chosing the words to be used in the discussion and thereby getting you to accept certain unspoken premises. For instance, 'Kingdom Hall' No its a church. Saying Kingdom Hall is a tacit agreement that there is a Kingdom, that they have the location of it and are the ultimate custodians of that Kingdom and the beliefs related to it. I don't accept any of those premises. 'Brothers and Sisters' Well, hardly. Whatever friends you had are likely running for the hills and won't help you no matter your situation. 'Elder or Overseer' These dudes couldn't oversee a one-car funeral. I don't recognize them as having any spiritual or temporal wisdom or any position of authority over me. 'Field Service' Horse pucky! Its a conversion work. They just want members. Anyway, you get the point. The faster you stop using the language the faster you leave off accepting the unspoken premises and the more your children see that you just simply are not in the religion.
6) Finally and most importantly, build a good, happy satisfying life for yourself. What is the saying "Living a good life is the best revenge" Well I don't want revenge, but I do want a good life. Having that will teach your children much more than any of the Ws or even your words. Its strange. The dubs constantly talk about how happy they are and how miserable everyone else (not the 'World' - more witness speak to be rejected) is. My experience is just the opposite. I knew any number of really miserable sad SOBs in the religion and most of the people I know now are generally happy and content. You are now free. Free to do all the things you wanted and felt too guilty to do before. Go do them. I completed my educational goals, started intensively gardening (the dahlias, roses and zinnias are glorious just now), read all sorts of books I had no time for before, played music. I am happy and content even though I miss my daughter. The most influential argument you can make to your children is a happy life.
Keep your chin up and be patient.
Finally good luck.
Best Regards
Damocles
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Quandry
Welcome, Damocles.
You've only made a few posts since you've joined, but they are eloquently written and thought-provoking.
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Damocles
Quandry,
Thanks for the nice words.
I don't post much. Partly, I'm not sure I have much to add. Also, in my job I have to answer anywhere from 50 to 100 emails a day. Most times I'm content to surf without comment.
Regards
Damocles
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BluesBrother
Well said Damocles
One way the J dubs win arguments is by choosing the words to be used in the discussion and thereby getting you to accept certain unspoken premises
Get them off their terms, or the discussion is lost..
But back to the point of the thread, Sadfox, you have my deep sympathy...
You know, I was reading a recent WT or AW that said how it was just untrue that they break families - and how, instead they build families together, with lots of life examples, of course !
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flipper
SADFOX- I feel for you my friend. I have 2 daughters 21 and 20 that shun me even though I'm just inactive ; not DFed. I do know your pain. Still going through it. As Sacolton mentioned , remember : We are here for you. And Mrs. Fiorini's suggestion to read " Releasing the Bonds " by Steve Hassan is a good suggestion. The more we educate ourself on how the witnesses manipulate our loved ones ; the more informed we can be on how to help them. Being forewarned is being forearmed .
I know your older child is 18 and being of legal age may choose not to visit, but since your other child is 16 you legally have the right to have visitation with her. Take advantage of that to draw close emotionally , and in time your adult child will draw close to you. My witness ex-wife spoke badly about me to my daughters, but my older son 23 did not buy into the lies. As some said : if you continue being a good, caring, loving person, in time your daughters will see through the facade of the witnesses and return to you. Just be there for them , show you care. Perhaps drop little notes in the mail to them, or cards just saying you love them and were thinking about them.
And important also is this : Keep busy yourself with your life in happy pursuits. Find some new friends to hang out with who will be supportive and you even have resources here in friends who are willing to assist you as well. Take advantage of that , totally ! Not much more I can say, but I'm sorry for your situation. But give it time, your children will grow up, and hopefully will see the real light. Good luck to you, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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burningbridges
When I read this post I see my future.... My soon to be ex and I are divorcing right now and going through a horrible custody battle. I dont think he will get custody but with how bad of sneaky bastards the witnesses are, you never know with the tactics they use. I dissasociated and he swears he will not teach her to shun me, but obviously he doesnt need to, the organization does. I tear up and bawl just thinking about it so I know just what you feel like. I am so sorry for you. I can only tell you the quote that gets me through my fears, and that is that God is stronger than brainwashing..... pray for her.... pray that God will open her eyes to the reality that this organization is.
Burningbridges.
Hello again everyone.... Ive been gone awhile!!!
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sadfox
Thank you all for the words of wisdom and comfort.
I can tell you without a doubt, as I told my daughter, that I will not go back into that organization just because they won't talk to me. I will not live a lie, I already did that for 34 years. I would never consider being part of an organization that teaches that God has no mercy. That is why I left, they made me feel like I was so bad that God's forgiveness towards me had reached its limit.
I have a deep faith in God, it's just not their faith. I am doing my best to turn this over everyday, to find ways to keep myself busy and in the moments I get to speak to my daughter, I will tell her I love her and that I am here for her. This is a crucial time of her life, her senior year in high school. There is a lot going on. I am taking advantage of the one-on-one time with my 16 year old, something we have had very little of. We do not talk religion, but I imagine that will come up soon enough.
My ex-husband, in the beginning da'd himself. He badgered the kids, who went to meetings with my parents, to give it up and celebrate christmas with him. I was already df'd but did not celebrate anything with them. The girls gave in and we had christmas at my house, then, on christmas day at his house, he announced he was going back to the organization and since they lived with him, they must go back too. Talk about a rollercoaster!! But I have to admit that my oldest daughter was relieved, she was uncomfortable celebrating her birthday and holidays. In some ways I can only blame myself, I started out raising her to be a witness. Guess I did a good job, huh?
I don't know how things will play out. I am trying to keep my faith in God and in whatever his plan is.
Thanks again for all your kind words and helpful advice. I will keep it all in mind and things go along.