Jesus is NOT an angel

by UnDisfellowshipped 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Jesus is NOT an angel!

  The Bible says that none of the angels is anything like Jehovah (Yahweh). (See Psalm 89:6) It also teaches that angels are merely servants sent forth to serve God and help God's people.

  But, the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is EXACTLY LIKE Jehovah, shares His Nature, and that Jesus is far above all angels, and that Jesus is the One who created all angels for His own glory, and God commands all of the angels to WORSHIP Jesus!

  Hebrews chapter one explains it better than any other Scripture:

  "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, andhe upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

  "For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"? And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

  "Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire." But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."

  "And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end."

  "And to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"? Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?"

  (Hebrews 1:1-14, English Standard Version, ESV)
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  Thomas Poole

  I thank you for your comment.

  If you go to http://forms.familyradio.org/htdig/search.html and type in the keyword "angel," this location has a variety of topics about your comment. l agree with you that is he is not an angel. However the Bible refers to him as an archangel. So what do we do with this?

  Firstly, as one uses scripture to teach scripture, one can see that (1) men are call angels, (2) Christ is call an archangel, and of course (3) there are real angels: angel-angels if you will. Going to the original Greek to help clear this up. An angel is a messenger. So I am an angel as a messenger of the gospel. John introduced Jesus's forthcoming to occur very soon after him, and John was called an angel (messenger) of the Lord. Men angels are used to gather in the harvest of wheat and tares (Matthew 13) during this end time by spreading the gospel while the time of the rapture is closing in rapidly (less than 31 months now), along with warning to others to come out of the churches. (Revelation 18:4)

  Christ is the archangel in the sense that he is the "Chief Messenger." Christ is the chief messenger of the covenent which make a whole lot of sense. This is not saying he is an angel per se, for through him all angels were created.

  In Christ,

  Thomas, Associate Watchman
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  hamsterbait

  Christ is certainly 'god's chief messenger, yet this is not to demote him from the position of the "Only begotten God" (John 1: 18)

  Most witlesses though just think of him as a bigger and better angel, a bit like a souped up automobile.

  HB
• 

  White Dove

  Based on a book I read, I'd have to say that Voldemort is the devil, Dumbly-dore is god, Harry Potter is his arch angel, and Hermione and Ron are just angels.
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  lovelylil

  Thomas,

  Exactly where in the bible does it call Jesus an archangel? Are you referring to the text that Russelites, Bible Students and JWs use at 1 Thessalonians chapter 4?

  16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

  If so, the above mentioned groups twist this text and read into it to make that conclusion. First of all it is talking about Jesus but notice it says in the beginning of verse 16 that he is "the Lord", not an archangel. Also it states the Lord (Jesus) will come down from heaven "with" a loud command, "with" the voice of the archangel and "with" the trump of God.

  The word "with" means accompanied by. Nowhere does this verse state that the Lord is the one giving the loud command with his archangel's voice. It merely says he descends accompanied by a loud command, given by an archangel. If we are to reason that since he comes "with" the voice of the archangel means he IS the archangel, we must also then conclude that his being "with" the trumpet call of God means he is the trumpet call?

  Would it make sense that our King descend from heaven with angels, one of which is an archangel that gives a loud command, possible an announcement of the Lord? Yes. Because Christ will descend along with the angels;

  Matthew 25:31] "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angelswithhim, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory

  If this is not the one text you are referring to, which as you can see can be interpreted differently and does not directly state that the Lord is the archangel mentioned here, please tell me what bible text does state Jesus is an archangel?

  I am looking for direct proof not a text you need to read into, add to, or twist to say something it does not. Lilly
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  isaacaustin

  1st Thess 4: 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

  is restated in Revelation ch 19...pay attention to verse 17:

  11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
  
  17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

  Verse 17 clearly identifies this angel...being distinct from our Lord.
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  lovelylil

  Thanks for that Revelation verse!

  Clearly Jesus is the King of Kings and LORD of LORDs but not a mere Angel. Hebrews 1 also shows the superiority of the SON over the Angels of God and also identifies Christ as GOD; this is from bible gateway, NIV version

  1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

  5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
  "You are my Son;
  today I have become your Father [ a ] " [ b ] ? Or again,
  "I will be his Father,
  and he will be my Son" [ c ] ? 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
  "Let all God's angels worship him." [ d ] 7 In speaking of the angels he says,
  "He makes his angels winds,
  his servants flames of fire." [ e ] 8 But about the Son he says,
  "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
  and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
  9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
  therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
  by anointing you with the oil of joy." [ f ] 10 He also says,
  "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
  and the heavens are the work of your hands.
  11 They will perish, but you remain;
  they will all wear out like a garment.
  12 You will roll them up like a robe;
  like a garment they will be changed.
  But you remain the same,
  and your years will never end." [ g ] 13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
  "Sit at my right hand
  until I make your enemies
  a footstool for your feet" [ h ] ? 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

  Peace, Lilly
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  isaacaustin

  exactly lovelylil

  An archangel is still an angel- a captain angel. the same as a sergeant is still a cop...just like a patrolman...with greater authority.
• 

  UnDisfellowshipped

  Thank you all for all of your comments! Thomas Poole, thank you for your comments. You said:

  "I agree with you that is he is not an angel. However the Bible refers to him as an archangel. So what do we do with this?

  My Reply:

  Where does the Bible refer to Jesus as an archangel? As LovelyLil pointed out very well, 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 does not at all prove that Jesus is an archangel.

  If 1st Thessalonians 4 is saying that Jesus is the archangel because He comes WITH the archangel's announcement, then by that same logic, we could say that Jesus is GOD because He comes WITH God's trumpet call. Just because Jesus comes WITH the shout or announcement of an archangel, does not in any way prove that He is that archangel.

  Also, Jude shows that Michael the archangel did NOT have the authority to rebuke Satan, however, Jesus, even as a Man on earth, had full authority to rebuke and command Satan and all of his demons. If Jesus is Michael, then how do you explain this discrepancy?

  Also, the book of Daniel says that Michael is only "ONE of the chief princes." Yet, the Bible clearly shows that Jesus is in a class all by Himself, that there is no one else like Him -- He is completely unique. (See Hebrews chapter 1 for example)

  Thomas Poole said:

  Firstly, as one uses scripture to teach scripture, one can see that (1) men are call angels, (2) Christ is call an archangel, and of course (3) there are real angels: angel-angels if you will. Going to the original Greek to help clear this up. An angel is a messenger. So I am an angel as a messenger of the gospel. John introduced Jesus's forthcoming to occur very soon after him, and John was called an angel (messenger) of the Lord. Men angels are used to gather in the harvest of wheat and tares (Matthew 13) during this end time by spreading the gospel while the time of the rapture is closing in rapidly (less than 31 months now), along with warning to others to come out of the churches. (Revelation 18:4) Christ is the archangel in the sense that he is the "Chief Messenger." Christ is the chief messenger of the covenent which make a whole lot of sense. This is not saying he is an angel per se, for through him all angels were created.

  I agree with you that the Greek word translated as "angel" means "messenger." It can refer to human messengers (such as John the Baptist), but most often it refers to spirit messengers from heaven.

  First, Matthew 13:24-30 shows that the "reapers" (who are "the angels") are NOT the same as the "Wheat" (the true Christian disciples). So, I think it's pretty clear that Jesus was speaking about spirit messengers in Matthew 13.

  Second, Jesus said that no one could possibly know the "day or hour" (or the "times and seasons," in the book of Acts) of His Return ahead of time, so on what basis can you claim to know the exact time of Jesus coming in the Rapture?

  Third, why do you believe that Revelation 18:4 is speaking about "coming out of the churches"? Which churches are you referring to? All of them, or just some of them? What happens if a Christian does NOT "come out of" one of those churches?

  I agree that Christ is "The Messenger of the Covenant," and I do believe He was THE Angel of The Lord who was also YAHWEH, but I do not agree that He is Michael the archangel.

  On what Scriptures do you base your belief that Jesus is an archangel? And do you believe that Jesus is God, or do you believe He was created by God?
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  reniaa

  hi undisfellowshipped

  intersting discussion you argument for not believing jesus is God is the scripture

  Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world . He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature , and he upholds the universe by the word of his power . After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs .

  I won't argue that jesus is superior to the angels but does that mean not an angel or at least not made of the ehh same stuff, you say the exact imprint of his nature as a reason to separate jesus and God from the angels but isn't somethng similar said of humans?

  Then God said, "Let us make man in ourimage, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

  does that mean we are made of same stuff as God because we are his image?