Jesus is NOT an angel

by UnDisfellowshipped 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Reniaa, thanks for your comments!

  You said:

  Then God said, "Let us make man in our image , in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

  does that mean we are made of same stuff as God because we are his image?

  The Greek word used in Hebrews 1:3 for "exact copy" is "charakter."

  Thayer's Greek dictionary gives this definition:

  "the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile"

  Strong's Greek dictionary gives the following definition:

  "the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image."

  While the Greek word used in 1st Corinthians 11:7 for the man being in the "image" of God, is "eikon."

  Here is Thayer's definition of "eikon":

  "an image, figure, likeness."

  Strong's gives this definition of "eikon":

  "a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image."

  So, the main difference is Hebrews 1:3 is saying that Jesus is the EXACT image of God's very Being in every way, while the Bible says that Mankind is created with a "likeness" or "resemblance" to God in certain ways.

  John 1:1 and Philippians 2:6 also teach that Jesus shares the exact same essence or nature that God the Father has. The Bible teaches that only God and Jesus (and The Spirit) share this essence, nature, or "stuff." Humans do not share this. I don't have all of the verses in front of me at the moment, that show this, but I will post them soon.

  Here is a sampling of how various Translations render Hebrews 1:3:

  the exact imprint of his nature (ESV)

  the perfect imprint and very image of [God's] nature (Amplified Bible)

  the exact representation of his very being (New World Translation)

  the very image of his substance (American Standard Version of 1901)

  the exact expression of His substance (The Apostles' Bible)

  the exact likeness of God's own being (Good News Translation)

  the exact expression of His nature (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

  the exact representation of His nature (New American Standard Bible)
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  Satanus

  'does that mean we are made of same stuff as God because we are his image?'
  
  Spirit is spirit, no? Or, are there gradations of spirit: good spirit, bad spirit. Satan is a bad spirit, god's spirit is good, except when it's not. God sent a bad spirit to saul. No wonder we need theologians to sort out this stuff.
  
  S
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Satanus said:

  "spirit is spirit, no? Or, are there gradations of spirit"

  Check out Psalm 89:6. It says (World English Bible):

  "For who in the skies can be compared to Yahweh? Who among the sons of the heavenly beings is like Yahweh?"

  So, that shows very clearly that Yahweh is in a whole different class or degree of Spirit than the angels and other heavenly beings are.
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  Satanus

  Ok, how about this? I have a bottle of water in front of me. On the other side of the street is the mighty st lawerence river. It must be about a half mile wide, and fast, as far as rivers go. It must be running a zillion gallons a minute. My little bottle of water has only 500 ml, and it doesn't move much. Are these two waters of a different nature, just because one is greater than the other?
  
  S
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  reniaa

  The Question here is are we talking substance or in mind?

  when we say 'A son is the image of his father' we mean he is just like him but not that he is made of the same stuff.

  An Angel is a spirit creature and lives in the spiritual realm we do not know how this works but we do know that jesus active in this realm too and is among them

  The Rider on the White Horse

  11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." [a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
  KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

  17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."

  19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

  So here is jesus riding with his angels.

  but as for jesus being an angel well this is were it gets interesting....

  exodus 14: 19-20

  19 Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel's army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them, 20 coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.

  note here is an angel that helps and accompanies moses and the israelites at the red sea.

  now note these words in 1 Cor 10: 1-4

  1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

  here Jesus is identified as the one accompanying moses and the israelites but how could he unless the angel of god and jesus are one and the same.

  Now lets look at gal 4 : 14

  12 I plead with you, brothers, become like me, for I became like you. You have done me no wrong. 13 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. 14 Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.

  here is not the link made between jesus and being an angel?

  and finally lets goto revelation 9:11

  11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon. [a]

  here we have a king angel with power that controls others who is he?

  Reniaa
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  Satanus

  'The Question here is are we talking substance or in mind?'
  
  Uh, NATURE. Nature of water was my illustration. Also, can you use your own own words?
  
  S
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  IP_SEC

  Satanus, your logic is undeniable but, leave the christians to their petty argument
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  reniaa

  but then jehovah and jesus are not water either!

  I use scripture its easier than my words heres another scripture on angels who does it remind you of?

  revelation 10: 1-4

  1 Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. 2 He was holding a little scroll, which lay open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, 3 and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. When he shouted, the voices of the seven thunders spoke. 4 And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, "Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down."

  2. Matthew 26:64
     "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
     Matthew 26:63-65 (in Context) Matthew 26 (Whole Chapter)
  4. Mark 14:62

     "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven
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  slimboyfat

  Paul equated Jesus with an angel:

  Gal 4: 14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.