I'm already quite satisfied having kept my two teenage children from being trapped in the WT organization, and my wife is not keen on attending midweek meetings without me, although I told her I will accompany her if she wants to attend. We still attend WE meetings, sort of weekly worship, not feeling comfortable with it, because we find we need to practice a christian religion and I've not seen a credible alternative so far. We also want to be able to say Hello and have a chat with JWs we come across on the street and occasionally have a cup of coffee or a meal with the few of them who may pop in our home. Each one manages his/her own parameters.
You can effect a Tipping Point.....
by sweet pea 33 Replies latest jw friends
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Sunnygal41
I left my marriage AND the organization over 10 years ago, and it took GREAT courage and a deep belief that I deserved to be happy and that my decision was in my own best interest to do so. I had NOONE except my mom and the very few acquaintances I had made at that point for a support group. I also had a therapist. It was not easy. I spent many evenings and holidays alone. Looking back, I can see that it gave me tremendous self confidence and faith in myself and showed me that I can be okay on my own and independent. Of course, I have ALWAYS been a loner, never accepted by a peer group, even in school. But, the point is, NOW, I'm OKAY with that. To me, this is a precious possession. In my opinion, at some point in life you have to stand up for what you believe is right for you. Did people gossip about me? Absolutely. Did it do any damage to me? No. In fact, it just shows how small minded and NON CHRISTIAN these so called friends of mine really were. Today, I am a happy person. When I see former friends of mine, still in, they look extremely unhappy, and are physically falling apart at the seams. Me, I have a roof over my head, a job, a nice car and true friends who allow me to be who I am without judging. I also have been joined by two very good friends who were in my congregation, both solid families in the "truth". Moral of my story: Don't let fear stop you from doing what is right for you.
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WTWizard
There are some reasons to continue going, at least for a time--among them is so that someone can get hold of the littera-trash and post it here for apostates to use to tear up the organization. And, if no one went, no one would be able to get access to the "new light" so we can have it months before the active witlesses get it. Or find out what new rules and conditions are there at the Grand Boasting Sessions.
The key is to have them counting on you for something major, and not be there for them.
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cognac
You have more chance of 'tipping' people while you are still a JW in good standing.
If you really want to inflict damage on a congregation, plan on being the LAST one to leave.
This is VERY true!!! I've done A LOT more damage staying in then I ever would have if I left... There's one particular Elder I'm not through yet with either... But, he's a jacka** that I have every intention of fully exposing for what he really is...
I've had A LOT of terrible experiences as a JW and it would be so much of a waste if I left now... Being in, I can share those experiences with everybody so they can see the JWs for what they really are... They have been pushing me to gossip with them for a long time about stuff (they had heard some little things) and I wouldn't. This past month or so I've started to have the courage to speak out. Stuff I never could even say on here... But, they are listening now... And they are disgusted with JWs...
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passwordprotected
As I was mentioned on this thread, I think it's important to point out that dignity is something that's afforded you by others and possessed personally by you.
I've no doubt some of the JWs who were very good friends with us are running our name through the mud right now. And why wouldn't they? We left the Org, 'the truth', Jehovah etc. They have no valid explanation for our actions (asides from the fact they choose not to ask us for our reasons) so they need to put us in a box and label us as evil.
I have no doubt, though, that some are greatly troubled inside themselves by our leaving and it has perhaps consolidated years of doubting about the Org seeing 2 people they knew well up sticks and leave.
So whether we are being affording dignity by those we've left behind, I don't know. Like I said, some may be running our name through the gutter, others not.
But that does not change the fact that we've left possessing dignity. We have dignity. We have refused to have that stripped from us by a publishing corporation. And that's someone all of us are capable of achieving, whether we choose to stay or leave.
None of us can influence how people view us, the opinion they have of us. If they want to view us as dog crap, there's not a lot we can do about it other than keep our heads high and move on with our lives. Their views of us, their slander of our name... well, big deal, it happens.
Their friendships and love were conditional. If they choose to walk past us in the street, who's lacking in dignity then, them or us?
As St Ann pointed out, we've been greatly aided in our exit by having each other.
And I second Besty request to see photos of slim boy fat's aunt. She must be a belter! -
no more kool aid
I agree with Sweet Pea about leaving in a dignified manner (not getting kicked out), really has a lot of credibility about it. However I cannot imagine doing this without my husband or if my children were adults and in. It's hard enough leaving behind your entire extended family, although their present attitude is making it easier. I too am still a bit of a coward, I've stopped going to meetings but no one really knows why,I think they assume it is something petty. In our case it was indeed the petty little problems that made us look more deeply into the doctrinal issues. The elders call constantly to talk to us but we've been avoiding it so far. We were not willing to continue the facade of meeting attendance and service, but I an still not ready to be DF'ed (because of family and friends). My heart goes out to all of you who have a spouse that is still in, I think I would go insane.
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besty
Like I said above we all seek to validate our own position - and I include myself and SweetPea in that.
This thread is about creating a tipping point, not tipping people as a few here seem to have got the two confused. My understanding of a tipping point is when the collective momentum behind a behaviour is such that it cannot be reversed. It relies on widespread collective action at the group level.
Tipping people is more like hand to hand combat in the trenches, and is clearly much more difficult if DA/DF'd.
So for example in Mark & Gails situation only a few know their real reasons and motivations for DA. Most others will hear a version via the grapevine.Their opportunity to tip people has reached its peak and is now declining. (Feel free to disagree Mark)
But - combine their leaving with two or three other couples also leaving in the immediate area and suddenly the whole flock in that area start to wonder why they are still staying when they see the smart ones leaving. A group dynamic can begin that staying undercover would never achieve.
Of course its next to impossible to say what would happen if you changed a few variables. If Mark had stayed as an undercover elder for longer could he have got more out? Would it have taken less time or more time to get them out? What would have been the effect on his mental health and self-respect? What about the effect on his young children of being raised in a cult?
I do agree that different strokes for different folks is valid - likewise I'm going to state my opinion and attempt to persuade others that I'm correct :-)
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passwordprotected
I know that locally we haven't reached the tipping point yet. Gail and I came to this late in the game but we moved very quickly once we 'woke up'; it's transpired that there are several families locally who are on the edge and have been for quite some time. We simply didn't piss about - once we were convinced the WTS were false prophets, etc, we left. We didn't find Christ until a couple of months after we left.
I believe that, again locally, there are more to come out. Whether our leaving the Org will or won't contribute to that, I've no idea.
Where it gets tricky for those still in, but who have faded completely away, there's still the WTS sword of Damocles hanging over their heads. I was recently talking to an ex-JW who left and faded about 10 years ago. 8 years into her fade she was spotted smoking. The BoE came after her and DFd her. As she said to me, it doesn't matter how long you've been away, they'll still get you.
It's a personal thing, as I'm sure we all agree. For us, we'd moved on with our lives but it's hard with young children to 'hide' your new life and lifestyle choices; you can never guarantee that a child won't blurt to a grandparent about a birthday or the like and get you into all sorts of hot water with the Org. So, letting our new lifestyle, our new friendships, our new choices be known publicly by telling our parents, we deliberately put ourselves into a position where we'd be DAd. This meant we could simply move on and not be looking over our shoulder. We live in a fairly small town, it'd be impossible to hide our activities for any length of time. We simply didn't want to have that perpetual knot in our stomach waiting to be busted for normal, everyday behaviour.
We've lost friends, Gail's sister shunned her in the supermarket last week. Big deal. We're able to hold our heads high and know we're not controlled by a publishing company who, with one magazine article, could completely reverse the shunning doctrine and 7 million JWs around the world would suddenly feel good about talking to family members again. -
flipper
From what I've observed ther are different ways to effect a tipping point. Some may effectively use more radical means, some may use more subtle means such as methods employed by Steve Hassan. I tend to do the latter as I have 2 elderly parents who accept my 5 year fade - and at this stage when they are 83 and 81 respectively, I'm not gonna rock their boat so to speak. They respect my fade, so I'll respect their freedom of choice too. That being said - I am in the process of actively trying to use Hassan's subtle methods to get my 21 year old regular pioneer daughter to be more authentic and real. It takes time, it takes patience. I'm willing to put in whatever effort and time to do it right so someday it will be not a matter of if she gets out of the witnesses, but when she gets out.
As some of us have mentioned ; we can be more communicative and effective getting others out of it - if we are able to still talk with them as fading witnesses. I tend to subscribe to that viewpoint- but different things work for different situations and people
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slimboyfat
Jumping Jehovahs, if my aunt knew there were APOSTATES eager to ogle.