You can effect a Tipping Point..... (page 3)

halcyon

Personally, I think if I was "labeled" something (like Apostate, DA'd, etc.), I'd be written off as that label, and no one would think of me again. If they did, they would shake their heads sadly and say, "see, this proves we have the truth, the devil is after us and he's gotten Halcyon."

The way it is now, having just disappeared, my old friends are forced to wonder WHY I left. They knew I was a good JW and a good person. They knew I wasn't in trouble, they knew I didn't have fights and arguments with people or leave because I was offended or stumbled. Well, no, they don't KNOW that, but my point is that they're forced to THINK about why I left. They can't just write me off as a label.

With that churning around in the back of their minds, it's bound to get some of them thinking as well. I know for a fact that some still think highly of me. What I say still has weight. They can't just write me off!!!

Personally, I think that's much more effective to stir up thoughts. When I was a kid and people left, yelling "1975!" etc., I just wrote them off as having succumbed to fleshly thinking and reading "bad" letters from "bad" people. It's the "exemplary" ones who faded without a word who still have the power to raise questions.

The-Borg

Hi Sweet pea and Besty,

The organization fills a need, a gap in the market. They provide a service for the emotionaly needy. As long as the needy/ weak are looking for that crutch(and there always will be) I don't see any tipping point. Some people need the organization.I know people that know it's a crock of shit but they like it, how do we pursuade them to take a stand?

I advocate just letting go. If the org implodes it will be by it's own design and stupidity. I'm all for helping people out and I do at every opportunity. Fighting against the organization though I believe is futile and a waste of our time and energy.

Look forward to seeing you both in April.

compound complex

A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom

Thomas Jefferson

SECTION I [...] truth is great and will prevail if left to herself; that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate; errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them.

Sweet Pea:

I rediscovered this in my Favorites and feel it pertains to your question. Of course, whether the acknowledgement and application of Jefferson's words effect change to the extent of a tipping point vis-a-vis JWs and the WTB&TS remains to be seen.

The above is so not the TRUTH of JW thought and practice.

Thanks,

CoCo

Awakened at Gilead

I am totally with you Sweetpea and Besty. As you know, I left the org and caused quite a ripple, not only in my last congregation, but in at least sevarl older congregations. I just spoke to an inactive JW friend in NC (who is still under the mind-f**k control) and he told me that 2 elders (who never visit him at all for his inactivity) came to see if he was in contact with me and to warn him not to since I am an apostate.

Sometimes when I see JWs I walk up to them, and just for fun, I tell them that I am an ExJW former Gilead Missionary. Besides the sadistic pleasure I get from seeing them run away with glazed eyes, I also hope to create consciousness that Ex-JWs are still alive, well AND happy. The other day, a Witless came to my door and me and my ExJW gf (pictured in my avatar) spoke to him for about an hour, showing him how the doctrines he came to telll me about were not in the Bible. He couldn't defend either "paradise earth", "great crowd", or even "apostasy" using the Bible. When I finally told him we are ExJWs, he was hooked, so he kept on talking with us for about 15 more minutes... I never know when someone will start to think...

I am just starting to write a book about my experiences as a JW, my exit, and how my experience can help others who are in the process of leaving... more about the book on another thread...

I do, however, respect those who need to keep in touch with spouses, sexy aunts, or others... As for me, I did not want the WT spectre hanging over my head! My life is so much better now that I am out!

A@G

mac n cheese

I agree with the OP, in theory. If it were just up to me, that's how I'd go out, and hopefully with a big bang, lots of letters, private meetings with people who have known me my whole life so that they would know how stupid the whole thing is to me.

Here's the problem: that's not my spouse's style. While normally I wouldn't care and proceed in my own way, spouse is waiting for parents to die. I'm waiting for spouse, because while spouse has had enough of the whole WT lifestyle, parents are very important to spouse. Spouse's parents are very old and could go anytime. They have had a lot of heartbreak and neither of us feel like adding to it. Having patience with my spouse is the one thing I'm quietly doing to help spouse with those baby steps out.

However, it is starting to cramp my style. I want to vote in the US election. I want to celebrate holidays for the first time in my life. Neither of those things will be happening this year, and that upsets me. I mean, we're both effectively out, we don't attend meetings anymore, other than to turn in fake time reports (for the parents). So far, the elders accept out time without a comment, other than to kindly ask how we are. I keep waiting for our own horror story; maybe when it happens, I'll post our whole story.

While just a few short months ago, I would have said that spouse would NEVER leave or stop activity, now spouse is completely inactive, and makes comments about how sad spouse's parents' lives are, that all they have is the WT life.

Thanks to all of you who gave such good advice on how to get a spouse out - being supportive to spouse has worked like a charm. I hope it keeps working.

Mac

dozy

I’m trying to remember how I felt when Jws DA’d themselves in the past for “apostasy” - I usually managed to rationalise the situation. Life goes on & the individual or couple were soon forgotten. So I don’t think that in itself , even a few people in a congregation being disfellowshipped creates any kind of momentum. Because of the top-down structure , any change has to come from the top , in the form of a major Brooklyn or branch schism or WCG style admission.

Undoubtedly there is an element of dishonesty in being aware of all the history & issues of JW & not formally disassociate oneself from that. But unfortunately it isn’t like cancelling a subscription to Reader’s Digest. There are tremendous family & social pressures to be overcome and the penalty of being shunned is very harsh. Many of us (myself included) are not as bitter towards “the truth” as others and see it as essentially just another religion.

While I understand & respect passwordprotected’s (couldn’t you use a shorter username?!) DA action , there are 2 obvious factors in his decision that aren‘t always the case in other people‘s circumstances.

(1) He has actively began attending other churches , alpha courses etc. Sooner or later it would have become public knowledge.

(2) He had the co-operation of his wife.

passwordprotected

@dozy - you can always call me Mark ;-)

2) big factor, you're right.

Hope4Others

While I am only faded 10 years now, I do totally support Mark and Gail's decision. Having

peace of mind it very important to have. I wish I was only half as brave and had the courage they have.

It is true having your mate right behind supporting you makes life less complicated, being able to be there

for each other when you feel up and when you feel down does make the decision easier...Best to all no matter

what you decide....lol

h40

ex-nj-jw

I walked away with no one but me and my infant son. I couldn't stand one more meeting, fs, bs or stupid family study. I think it's all in the person, if they are strong enough to say I'm out and I don't care if you shun me, I'm getting on with my life.

To each his own but as far as me I couldn't pretend or hang around. The family that was in when I left are still in and I have little if any contact with them.

nj

halcyon

I don't agree with the Tipping Point theory, because a mass exodus has already happened and it didn't effect a tipping point. Remember the early 80s? At least in my sphere of acquaintances, a LOT of people left in a short time.

It didn't tip anything organizationally. Even among those who left, they had been a big group of friends who were obviously talking together before they left. After they left, DAing stopped for a long time. So one cannot assume that anyone was influenced by their leaving to start their own questioning. The supposition in the congregation was that it had been "cleaned out." The group that was left grew closer and stronger in their faith.

I keep waiting for some shocking organizational change that will cause a Great Schism. But it won't happen from the outside.

You can effect a Tipping Point.....

Share this